Reptile & Amphibian Forums

my vivarium now seems to be infested with fruit flies.they have no doubt began breeding in there.the problem is,i dont keep frogs so they are not a good thing.i didnt put them in there,so they must have come from outside.another problem is,when i drain my false bottom,the water has a strong rotten egg smell.i read that a good vivarium should not smell like this.its a new setup,about 3 weeks,but im still worried and dont know what to do about the flies and smell.thanks

If you didn't put fruit flies in the tank and there isn't any rotting fruit in the tank they aren't fruit flies. My guess would be fungus gnats. What sort of soil are you using? It really doesn't matter as you have two choices - put something in the tank that will eat them and hope for the best, or tear the tank down. There are chemicals that will take care of the problem, but if you ever want to put animals in the tank I wouldn't recommend them.

Best,

Chuck

FROG DAY

Yep, sounds like Fungus Gnats. They are tiny like frit flies, but have a smaller body and they leave a webish covering in places around the viv. (hence the fungus name..)

Unfortunatley, I have no idea how to get rid of them....carnivirous plants anyone? (kidding, vivs are to humid for most common venus flytrap plants, only lowland nepenthes will thrive in vivs ((unless its a bog viv....))
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0.2.0. Leo
1.1.0. WTF
0.1.0. Irish Setter
2.1.0. Holland Lop Bunnies
1.1.0. House Cats
Too Many Fish!

Check out my site ~ www.freewebs.com/stephsgeckos

what about using a lightgrade pesticide? i mean im not keeping anything in there yet,but i would like to when im comfortable with the setup.no amphibians though,im going to use reptiles.so wouldnt they be a bit more tolerant of chemicals?? i can treat it and then flush it out through the fase bottom a few times to clean it out.i read that a few drops of plain dishsoap wixed with water and sprayed in there will kill a lot of insects,just worried about my live moss mainly.

I would advise against using anything even mildly toxic. It will probbaly turn out to be less work in the long run to just take apart the viv and start again. its almost impossible to entirely flush out a viv, and yes reptiles are still quite sensitive to toxins. You also mentioned your viv dosent smell too great, so maybe starting again will stop that as well. (what reptiles are you thinking of using? there arent to many that really like the high humidity of a viv...just curious) Anyways, Practice makes perfect!

The flies most definaltey came form anything you brought in from outside. so avoid doing that again. If you Really want to grow local moss in a viv make moss milk. its great stuff! the blending process/ adding liquid, should kill most of the bugs/eggs in the moss.

To make moss milk: take 1 handfull of moss and a Small ammount butter milk (or regular milk, add a little water, and BLEND untill smooth
pour the mix over where you want moss to grow, and volia! moss, in about a week or two.
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0.2.0. Leo
1.1.0. WTF
0.1.0. Irish Setter
2.1.0. Holland Lop Bunnies
1.1.0. House Cats
Too Many Fish!

Check out my site ~ www.freewebs.com/stephsgeckos

I smell something rotten in Denmark, like "Who cut the cheese?" This is a dart frog forum, aka "arrow frog" and you are asking questions about stuff that really doesn't occur--at least never in my tanks--all 12 of them full of plants and healthy dart frogs and never any smell of the devil about them. Is this some kind of test? What species of darts are you keeping or intending to keep, or are you just putting us on with imaginary scenarios to see what answers you might get?
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Patty
Pahsimeroi, Idaho

4 D. auratus blue
5 D. galactonotus pumpkin orange splash back
5 D. imitator
6 D. leucomelas
4 D. pumilio Bastimentos
4 D. fantasticus
4 P. terribilis
4 D. reticulatus
4 D. castaneoticus
2 D. azureus
4 P vittatus

hey im sorry if you think im pulling your leg but all these things i am experiencing(dont know why you think that).i dont mean my cage smells like rotten eggs,it smells fine,like earthy.its the water that collects in the false bottom that has a smell.when i drain some out and pour it down the drain,it has a sulphur/rotten egg type smell.i have read once that this is not a good sign and means something but forgot what it meant and forgot where i read it.as far as this forum,well have i questioned about something not vivarium or dartfrog related?im a little curious where your hostility is coming from.i just bought a camera so any future posts ill be sure to include photos so you know im on the up and up.as for the fly problem,i think i have an id on them.they are not fungus knats,but are a fly called a phorid fly.never heard of it untill now but they look exactly like fruit flies except they dont have red eyes.they were in my house near the kitchen drain,before i began building my vivarium so i know thats where they came from.they like damp,decaying animal and plant matter so thats why they moved into my vivarium.what i dont know,is if the larva eat roots like fungus knats,or they are harless to my plants.i have sprayed and killed all of them that were breeding in my drains but now it seems they have moved into my vivarium.not sure if they will stay or if the conditions are right for them,but there is no doubt the water/moisture and smell attracted them and i do believe that they have bred in there once.i shooed all of them out this morning and taped all cracks before comeing to work.if i get home and see flies in there again,i know that they have emerged from the soil and that they are breeding in there.i think ill have to spray if that is happening.if my only option is to tear it all down and start again,then i feel i have nothing to loose by giving an organinc pesticide a try.

Re-readiing my post, it did sound hostile. I was actually mostly confused and frustrated about all of these problems occuring and not being able to figure it out logically. A sulphur smell is most likely coming from some sort of anaerobic bacterial break down that produces hydrogen sulfide. As far as the fungus gnats or any sort of small flies, we don't experience them in dart tanks very often because the darts eat them, and of course we would definitely eschew any sort of pesticide, whether labeled "organic" or not as being possibly harmful to the frogs.

I can think of a couple of things you could try, one being aerating your false bottom with an aquarium bubbler, which would help oxygenate the water and kill off any anaerobes that could be causing this stink. Usually the water in our false bottoms is circulated over falls by a pump and aerated in that manner, and the false bottoms are designed specifically for water features.

Have you seen any particular plant damage that appears to be insect related? Root or stem rot? Do you ever plan to introduce amphibians or other animals to this tank in the future, or is it a straight plant terrarium? What plants are you growing in it? I'll try to review your previous posts specifically, since I can't always remember who has posted what, and make an effort to give some real help instead of a hostile sounding response, that I apologize for, by the way. I just thought, "This guy is having one difficulty after another, and that's just not normal unless something else is going on," so maybe we need to go back to the beginning in order to figure it out. I don't want to give this forum a bad name by being a crab or appearing snotty when I can't come up with a logical answer. I'm only an interested guest here myself, and my own experience with terrarium plants and vivarums is fairly good, but still limited, not by any means an ultimate authority.
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Patty
Pahsimeroi, Idaho

4 D. auratus blue
5 D. galactonotus pumpkin orange splash back
5 D. imitator
6 D. leucomelas
4 D. pumilio Bastimentos
4 D. fantasticus
4 P. terribilis
4 D. reticulatus
4 D. castaneoticus
2 D. azureus
4 P vittatus

I went back over the posts and your tank is going to eventually contain a green python, right? I hope you can post some pictures--not for proof of your sincerity, which I truly don't doubt, but it might stimulate some more useful help from other people who know something about snakes as well as biologically balanced planted vivariums. (I don't think your problems are actually as bad as they may seem to you at this time.)
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Patty
Pahsimeroi, Idaho

4 D. auratus blue
5 D. galactonotus pumpkin orange splash back
5 D. imitator
6 D. leucomelas
4 D. pumilio Bastimentos
4 D. fantasticus
4 P. terribilis
4 D. reticulatus
4 D. castaneoticus
2 D. azureus
4 P vittatus

yea i have a water feature but i didnt include it in my false bottom.what i did was have the waterfall circulate into a seperate bowl and not filter through into my false bottom.i made this decision because i was afraid that if it got clogged,id have to dig everything alll up.so the answer to your question is no,the water collecting in my false bottom is not being airated.this could be the problem??i do frequent water changes but im afraid at this rate of watering and emptying the false bottom,ill eventually depelete the soil of all nutrients.should this be a concern??

I think I see the problem. A false bottom is meant to circulate--what you need is only a drainage area for the substrate if you are not using this layer of water for the purpose of a water feature. Drain it entirely and leave it that way. You have no reason for having a dead layer of water under your tank substrate otherwise. It will then be just a drainage area for the substrate on top and you can siphon off any excess water that seeps down into it. When I either have a self-contained fountain or some other water feature on top, I don't build a false bottom at all, but only a drainage layer of gravel and perhaps some charcoal beneath the substrate, and siphon this off only when it accummulates enough water from misting, etc. to seem to need it, which is rarely. You do not need a layer of water under your substrate for any reason unless you are utilizing it as part of a waterfall-stream-pond-circulating system. All it is doing now is creating a stagnant anaerobic condition that smells like sulphur. Drain it.

As far as the plants are concerned, they will do fine--just remove any that don't. You won't have the same sort of poop/excess food recycling system with a snake as you would with dart frogs, but neither do most plants that do well in terrariums need high levels of fertilizer. You may be surprised how well they do without it. You can merely top-dress the substrate with another layer of leaf mold, organic compost or whatever occsionally--maybe once a year. This is not the same thing as growing vegetables, or even keeping house plants. As far as the gnats and flies you are worried about, just ignore them. They will be a part of the system and either cycle out or help out. They aren't pathogenic, except the sight of them might disturb your sense of sanitation.

Keep the right conditions for your snake temperature-wise, humidity, ventilation, and then remove any plants that don't take to the same conditions your snake requires.

I think you have somewhere been misguided by our passion for false bottoms, and the fact that perhaps I'm not the only one who has misread your posts. My advice is not to sweat the various flies, fungus gnats and such that are rather natural invaders of your tank--do not introduce any sort of insecticide, whether touted as "organic" or not, and just continue setting it up. The bugs will cycle out in time. Don't worry about plant nourishment diminishing. Just set it up with your snake's welfare in mind. It will work. But do drain all the water from the "false bottom" and use it as a soil drainage area instead. There is no reason you need water down there if it isn't part of a circulating system.

Anyone else still here? Am I giving bum advice? Josh--where are you?
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Patty
Pahsimeroi, Idaho

4 D. auratus blue
5 D. galactonotus pumpkin orange splash back
5 D. imitator
6 D. leucomelas
4 D. pumilio Bastimentos
4 D. fantasticus
4 P. terribilis
4 D. reticulatus
4 D. castaneoticus
2 D. azureus
4 P vittatus

sounds good,i was just woried about draining the bottom too much out of fear of washing all the nutrients out of the soil,but i guess house plants that are watered and have water drip out the bottom would also have this problem and they dont.as far as the flies,i think you are right,they have (i hope)cycled out as i only see an occasional one or two and the vast majority of them seem to have been coming from my garbage disposal and not the vivarium at all.i think i have everything covered at this point and now ill post some pictures.i do have one last question,its on a species id ,and patty,you seem pretty great with those.this weekend while at a flea market,i bought a succulant from a vender.i was told that it wasnot a desert species but lived in the jungle ,in a host tree.it is a hanging basket type of succulant,very droopy,no fuzz,spines,or spikes,basically smooth skinned stringy growths no thicker than say one of those thin coffee straws,and each growth is about as long as a coffee straw too,that is before it branches off into another one..it all droops over the side of the basket like dolls hair.any idea if it is indeed a jungle plant and if i can use it in my vivarium?i forgot the name but just assumed id be able to find it online when i got home but i had no luck.again you have been great and i wouldnt have been able to do this without your help.

The plant sounds like a Rhipsalis sp. which are epiphytic jungle cacti. Does it look anything like any of these? There are many Rhipsalis species, many of which are similar to each other. When you are able to post some pictures, I may be able to help you out more. I grew a LOT of cacti and succulents at one time and have some good references. By the way, they do well in the upper levels of a vivarium, but may rot if they are placed where the water saturates them.

I'm glad that things are finally working out!

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Patty
Pahsimeroi, Idaho

4 D. auratus blue
5 D. galactonotus pumpkin orange splash back
5 D. imitator
6 D. leucomelas
4 D. pumilio Bastimentos
4 D. fantasticus
4 P. terribilis
4 D. reticulatus
4 D. castaneoticus
2 D. azureus
4 P vittatus

hey patty,it looks exactly like the first picture and the last picture,not at all like the one in the middle.in fact,im sure its the same as the first picture only thing that may make me think twice is that its in a hanging basket and its like falling over the sides.im sure its the one.is it a rare species because i didnt find it at a rare plant dealer.i bought it from a guy at a flea market selling a few potted plants.so you say it will do really well hanging on the wall but how exactly should i mount it??i have not yet removed it from the pot or attempted to break it up but considering the size and available space i have in my vivarium,i am going to have to break it up considerably.i only need and can only use a piece about 25 percent the current size.does it have deep roots?? can i split them anywhere?? when i split it should i use rooting hormone??anyway thanks again patty.

There are several different species of Rhipsalis that look like that. The first picture is R. quellenbambensis, and the last is another species that looks very much like it. They aren't rare at all, but just not usually grown except by cactus enthusists.

All you need to do is take off a cutting the size you want that includes one or more nodes where the stems tend to branch off. Wrap this in some damp brown sphagnum moss, perhaps secured with some dental floss wrapped around this to keep it together, then just peg this into whatever part of the vivarium you want it to grow in. You don't need to include any roots, but if there are some pieces of root where you cut it off, so much the better. A cutting will probabaly root more successfully into your background media than if you attempt to transplant a division with roots already intact. If you do want to divide the plant from the roots, cut the roots back with sharp scissors as cleanly as possible, leaving only about 1/4th of their length. Shake off the soil. Then cut back the stems as well, preferrably at a node--wrap in sphagnum the same as a cutting.

As long as there is good drainage and the sphagnum is just damp and not wet, you shouldn't experience any rotting and the plant should form new roots and grow.
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Patty
Pahsimeroi, Idaho

4 D. auratus blue
5 D. galactonotus pumpkin orange splash back
5 D. imitator
6 D. leucomelas
4 D. pumilio Bastimentos
4 D. fantasticus
4 P. terribilis
4 D. reticulatus
4 D. castaneoticus
2 D. azureus
4 P vittatus