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I hear alot of different opinions , just curious what everyone here thinks . I'm unsure about choosing founding stock for an Axanthic project . Which line " browns' out " less ? Thanks for any opinions in advance ......

Rich-OSC

This is a picture of my 2004 male SK line axanthic that I just sold yesterday.

Looks good to me.

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RicK @ BbI

Ball Boutique,Inc.
Proud sponsor of this forum

Thanks Rick ,

Yes you are right , that animal is stunning to me....it looks BLUE . You also have VPI line as well , any difference in the browning as they age . your SK turned out to be very nice looking , but I've seen some the hardly bare the traits of a " good " Axanthic . Thanks ,

Rich-OSC

Rich - Since I posted my question about axanthics yesterday - I got a bunch of pictures emailed to me from all lines. Honestly there were nice ones from all lines and there were some that browned out quite a bit from all lines. I think someone likened it to pastels in my post which seems to be appropriate. I think instead of deciding on a "line" it would be better to decide based upon the appearance of the parents.
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Tosha

"Nihil facimus sed id bene facimus"

7.33.0 Ball Python (Harry and Fluffy and gang)
1.0.0 Angolan Python (Anakin Skywalker)
0.0.1 Green Tree Python (Verdi - yeah I know but my kids love the book)
0.2.0 Feline (Pippen and Pandora)
0.0.1 Desert Tortoise (Pope John Paul aka JP )
2.2.1 Fish (1,2,3,4)
0.0.2 frogs rescued from pool skimmer

Tosha ,

Great way to look at it , but hatchlings do vary from parents , and these parents have produced good , and ok looking offspring . Thanks for your opinion ,

Rich-OSC

When we were acquiring our Axanthic project we looked at all the lines. It is very rare to see an adult VPI Axanthic look anything but a black and silver animal. Yet is very common to see all the other lines as adults look close to normals. When we were choosing which line to work with it was quite evident and easy to see. That is also why the VPI lineage of Axanthics consistently cost more than the other lines. Look at the VPI Snow it is a white snake with yellow flecks on spattered on the skin. Most of the other snows look like faded albinos. That is why it is so much more than the Joliff snow and I am sure it will be when to other lines of snows become available to the public. Don't get me wrong I am not taking anything away from the difficulty of making a 1 in 16 animal but the whole idea of a snow was to try to get a snake that looked like snow (no yellow) Go with your gut and which line you like to work with.

Joe at MKR
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Well Joe I saw only pictures of the SK line Snow and I am impressed!
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RicK @ BbI

Ball Boutique,Inc.
Proud sponsor of this forum

I agree they are all nice snakes. But I have seen too many other lines of Axanthics that brown out on a too regular of a basis consitently. You don't see that with the VPI lineage at all or at least consistent on a regulat basis. We have a lot of homozygous VPI breeders both males and females and they are all black and silver not one has browned out. It is just my oppinion but fact is fact.

Joe at MKR
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I understand your opinion. I am working with both lines. I have a VPI male double het snow and two possible het females. Perhaps I shall see what I get. I have seen Brian's VPI snow in person......nice.
Can you take some pictures to post for us?
I have seen brown VPI axanthics on other web sites.
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RicK @ BbI

Ball Boutique,Inc.
Proud sponsor of this forum

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OZZYBOIDS

np
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Kyle Stevens
Royal Variations

Many a false step is made from standing still.

I did the same looking, asking and adult picture seeking I could find before I decided to purchase one of the lines. I found that over all, the VPI Axanthics tend to retain the most black and silver color throughout adulthood. More so than the other lines. There are good adult representatives from all lines but overall the VPI lines retain the look better and longer than any other. The VPI line has a much higher percentage of the adults retaining the color all through their life span.

IMHO,,,,,go VPI.
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No snowflake ever falls in the wrong place.

Zen proverb

Snowballs

I found out last night that the only reason I sold the axanthic was that he saw the SK Snow @ a show......and can't wait to produce a SK snow!!!!!
He said it was unbelievable!
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RicK @ BbI

Ball Boutique,Inc.
Proud sponsor of this forum

Well I have seen good VPI and average VPI, I have pictures of both. I have also seen good SK and average SK line axanthics. I am not going to come out and knock the VPI line. Our snow does not look like a fadded albino as you can see in the picture. Actually many of our axanthics are called charcoal axanthics as they turn almost all black as adults. If you are looking for lots of white then you like seeing lots of black. Any ways everyone who makes it by here is always impressed by the snow ball and the charcoal axanthics.

Dan

sweet.......and thanks for posting.
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RicK @ BbI

Ball Boutique,Inc.
Proud sponsor of this forum

That is one beautiful snake. By far the best looking snow I have seen.
Mike

What a terrible pic that is. You should work on your lighting if your trying to show it the way it really is. I hope you didnt do this on purpose. But I would guess you did. Nice work to make the yellow not show up.

Ive never seen an SK Snow as nice as the one you posted. So I started thinking and digging a little. I went in and fixed the lighting hope you dont mind to much. Man that snow has alot of yellow. Great job on the pic again....lol

What the heck is that the blurry snow. The first pic is more accurate, I've seen it in person so I know what I'm talking about. Also there's only one so that's the only one you've ever seen.

Eric
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www.ESReptiles.com

Where did I say anything about there being more than one? And second my picture isn't anymore blurry than the one they posted. I used to do this stuff for a living. I think mine is more accurate. I can pull up other photos of the same snake that look more like my pic than the one SK posted.

Both the pics look the same. Theirs looks like it was taken indoors and your looks like outdoors.
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www.ESReptiles.com

You need to get your eyes checked. There pic was taken inside with no flash. Mine is what that pic would look like with a little light.

I let my friend see the pic that knows nothing about ball pythons. I asked him what it looked like. He said: "It looks like a grey snake with slight yellow tones." "But whats up with the eyes?" I told him it was supposed to be white. His response: "Laughs...The need to learn how to use a camera. The eyes are all blurry and not enought light was used."

We had a great laugh and he asked me if I could fix it. I told him I could make it look more accurate, but not perfect.

You say there was no flash used? Any experienced photographer or amateur for that matter can tell from the FLASH in the eye that a flash was used. The camera used was a Cannon EOS 1D Mark II. I think the photographer knows what he was doing.

Dan

I got a real dumb question........................Why the H*ll we gotta argue about how this pic was or wasn't taken? It's becoming more than a little childish. Somebody on the rag er what?

Quig

np
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Kyle Stevens
Royal Variations

Many a false step is made from standing still.

Photo critiques aside lets at least admit that the animal is a beautiful unique Royal Python and the laughs and giggles do not impress me at all. Dan and Colette do not mislead nor do they embellish on what their animals actually look like. Great to know you are such an authority in photography “self proclaimed”. Perhaps we can admit that the Sutherlands have a high level of expertise when it comes to Royal Pythons. Actually quite often the photos on this forum are not the correct exposure but after all this is not the photo forum. People are kind enough to share the photos of their animals and while they might not be the absolute best quality of photo technique the photos do give a good idea of what the animals look like. If you want to slam the quality of the photo that is fine but to suggest that the Sutherlands have an agenda to mislead anyone is a personal attack on their character. Tasteless and unjustified.
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Kyle Stevens
Royal Variations

Many a false step is made from standing still.

That someone who has actually SEEN the snake, like Eric S., would have a more accurate knowledge of what the snake looks like, rather than you adding "hue" and "saturation" to the pic until it becomes yellow.

EXCELLENT snow by the way!!

np
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Kyle Stevens
Royal Variations

Many a false step is made from standing still.

I have also seen this snake in person. It is exactly like The Snake Keepers have it pictured.

Marshall

That is one AWESOME snow Dan!!
NP
Hillary
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J & H Reptiles

I think the proof is in the pudding... Compair the snows that have been produced and see which one doesnt look like a faded albino and I think youve found which line you should work with.
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Sam Craver
Cage Crafters and The Blood Bank

I have a totally different take on this topic. I love variation. Hence all three to me are neat for their own reasons. I'm not sure that it is something to compare or rank. Each phenotype is what it is. I'm a huge fan of all three lineages, I'm not even sure they should be labeled as the same mutation. Need to do a bit more breeding wih other mutations to see if we can clarify this. I love the snows of all three. Tracy/VPI

I have an SK Axanthic and some day hope to produce my own snow. Like Tracy said each line has their own look and appeal.

kevin
PYW morphs
san diego