Reptile & Amphibian Forums

my blue tongue skink hasn't eaten for the last 5 days, and today i watched him puke up a huge white mucus-like mass. it was white and firm, almost like really firm mucus, but i dont know what it was. it was about and inch long and half an inch wide and cylindrical shaped. elvis was a wild caught skink and i just got him a week ago. the vet isn't open till monday, so ill take him over there a.s.a.p., but does anyone think they know what it may be. i am wondering if it is either parasites that caused it or an infection of some sort...maybe respiratory...he has been sneezing a lot. any advice would be greatly appreciated. thanks.

This may sound cruel. But I harp on this all of the time, and now I am going to do it again. This is so simple, yet so many people just do not get it. The best advice I can give you or anyone else is to buy captive bred reptiles. I have no clue what is wrong with your skink, and the vet may not know either, I can tell you that for what you paid for it, and what you are about to pay at your vets, you could have had a captive bred flawless animal with a lot of change to spare. The majority of BTS fatalities that I have ever dealt with have been imports that come in with respiratory disease, or parasites. The mortality rate for imports is so much higher. This is not because of how they live in the wild, it is due to the adverse and atrocious conditions that they are subjected to during their often lengthy stay at the exporters. They are often crammed in large numbers into holding bins with no water or food, and kept at improper temps. Blue-tongues are extremely tough and resilient, which is why many of them make it. But, it is not worth it. Many of them also die, or as you now know, need medical care. We have plenty of Blue-tongues of Indonesian origin in the hobby already. When we buy that import we may save ourselves $10.00, $15.00, $25.00 or maybe even $50.00. However, it is not without a price. When we do this, we create a demand, making it necessary to increase the supply. Every time we buy one of these guys, we condemn at least one more to be unnecessarily collected and brought in to replace him, and many others to a worse fate. When we do this we make it financially unsound for breeders to breed these animals because most of the people in the pet buying public do not realize what I am telling you right now, and it is not possible to compete with the importers prices. When we buy these animals we hindering captive breeding efforts, by putting cash in the pockets of the importers. In essence we are choosing sides. When we buy imports, we are saying I support the importers, and I like what they do, and here is my money to prove it. When we buy an import we buy an animal of unknown age, and sex. It is an animal that would be a healthy breeding member of its wild population if left to its ways, but is exposed to many pathogens, and stresses that lower its resistance during the importation process. I tell you all of this because there is only one way to stop this, and that is for us to make an effort as consumers and for each of us to take responsibility. All I can tell you is get it to a vet ASAP, and in the future the best medicine is prevention. This could have been prevented with the purchase of a captive bred skink. They are out there.

That is why I have a self-proclaimed principle of never buying wild-caught reptiles. I can see why some people still buy wild-caught adult New Guinea BTS though. There aren't too many being captive-bred. Not enough to quite satisfy the demand. I think it will only take a mere 3 to 5 years before the importation of New Guineas is greatly reduced. Because by that time, there will be plenty of captive-bred babies and a few captive-bred adults here and there.

But that's only the tip of the iceberg. Demand is increasing for other BTS subspecies. Such as ones from Larat and Kei Island. So with the reduction of importation of New Guinea BTS, there will simply be a lot of importing of the other species. Which is why I recommend that all people that read this leave these wild-caughts to professionals. Once the pros get enough of these other rare species, it's only a short wait before captive-bred specimens are fairly common.

thank you for your response james
i feel like crap. i was completely ignorant to all of the things you said in your reply. it was my first time buying a skink and i have wanted one for years...this "wholesaler" called xtreme reptiles is right near my house, and they were selling indonesian blue tongues for $75, which i thought was an amazing deal. i bought one without even thinking if it was captive bred or wild caught, i was just so happy to have my skink and that i got such a "good" deal on him. now a week later i have a sick skink that needs a vet visit. furthermore, i called the people i bought the skink from to complain, and they said not to take him to the vet because the vet can't do anything for him that i can't do myself, and that most vet's don't know anything about skinks. they said it would be a waste of money. i wish i could go back in time and buy a healthy captive bred skink, even if i had to spend twice as much. i don't think it is right what they do to these animals when they import them, and i feel ashamed and guilty for being nieve and supporting this type of animal abuse. the worst part is that i really like my skink and i don't want him to suffer at all. if anyone knows of a really good herp vet in the miami florida area or someone that will be able to help him please let me know. thanks again for the reply james, i have learned a hard lesson but i will never again buy a wild caught skink.

I learned it the hard way, just like you have. When I first started keeping exotic Reptiles, I soon learned what the importers were about, but not before I got burned. The good news is that you totally see the point, and you can spread the word, and you will also know for the next time. Get him to a vet and watch him close till then. Can you post a pic of him or what he vomited?

james

James, i am very disheartened and extremely sad to say that my indonesian blue tongued skink elvis has passed away tonight. six days after acquiring him, he is dead. i cant believe it. i had become attached to this amazing creature even though i had it for only a week, and today watching him lose grip of his life with my father was heartbreaking. i dont really know exactly what killed elvis, but i have a couple of guesses. i am certain he had parasites, as he had been having convulsions, throwing up vomit through his mouth and nose, and passing bloody diarrhea in the hours before his death. furthermore, he was having an extrememly difficult time breathing...he had to work so hard for every breath. i am shocked. not only am i sad, but i am so so angry...why hadn't i done my homework and found out about how much trouble wild caught skinks have. i cant believe he had to suffer so much...if those bastards had left him in the wild, he would be alive and happy today. i was just nieve about it...and i cant believe i supported the torture and abuse that these skinks go through by buying one. i know im being hard on myself, and i know i didnt do it on purpose, but nevertheless, i feel horrible. i have never had a pet die on me....and i tried so hard, i mean my father and i were forcefeeding him water through an eyedropper because he wouldnt drink and was dehydrated. i dont even know what to do...this is just to devastating. even though it is of small consequence compared to the lovely animal that just lost his life and suffered horribly, i am a college student myself and i dont exactly have money right now, and the $200 i paid for elvis and his home and furnishings six days ago feels like someone conned me out of it...i mean, i thought i was buying an investment, a wonderful pet and companion that i would keep and take care of for ten years, maybe more, but six days later my vision seems like a joke. its not even the money i lost though, i just feel so horrible after witnessing elvis die. i am sorry to write such a depressing post you guys, i am just venting my feelings, this all happened so fast. thank you for supporting me and please keep elvis in your heart. for anyone out there even thinking of buying a wild caught skink, please do yourself a favor and learn from my terrible mistake. take care. alex

I just looked at the reciept for when i bought my aquarium and stuff for elvis, which i bought the same day as him, and it turns out ive only had him for five days....it seems like it has been more though. well, the people who sold it to me say they have a "five day health guarantee", so well see what they have to say about this, i just hope it doesn't get ugly, even though i think it will. im so pissed off right now. i mean, for him to die five days after i got him...he must have been so sick for so long. i wonder what kind of conditions he was kept in. oh well, still venting, its 3 am but i can't even sleep, i guess ill see what you guys have to say tomorrow. good night.

I hope it's not too late, but put him in the refrigerator. That way you can prove what happened to him. I think that 5 days is too quick for the usual parasites to kill an otherwise healthy reptile, and whatever he had, you might not have been able to save him. Get your money back (make a scene if you have to), and save up toward a nice healthy BTS from the classifieds.

First, these guys are not going to want to give you a refund. They are going to want to give you another skink, which to me is like repeating your mistake. It will be tempting. Don't do it. Hold out for a refund. Do make a seen, and let them know that you will let every herper, that you can possibly contact, know what they did to you and Elvis. Don't take their credit. That is how they are able to stay afloat. The skink costs them about $15.00, they charge $75.00 to make up for all of the deaths that they end up with while in their care. When they sell a reptile, they know that some will die, but it is worth it them, because most people just do not bother pursuing the matter. Because of this many importers have developed the ugly habit of selling the sickly animals first so as to hopefully not have to absorb the cost of its death. Then if the person does complain, they offer him a replacement. This sell the sickies first policy is pure economics. They are able to sell more animals when they sell the sickies first. In their defense, your skink looked fine. I know a guy that purchased 20 Imported Indonesian BTS from Burgundy Reptiles. They were all healthy looking skinks, yet six were dead within a week. These guys at this place were so goofy that they sold them as Malaysian BTS, swearing that they can be found there. After informing them that this was not so, they told me that I was wrong, and that they get them out of Malaysia all of the time. I told them to provide me with field collecting data or specific local info, and he could not. That is just where they were shipped in from. I tell you about this petty argument for three reasons. The first is to let you that Tiliqua gigas is protected in Indonesia. However, It is still often imported as Tiliiqua scincoides, with its name being changed only after making it into the US. Many others are illegally sent to Malaysia, and then shipped out as a Malaysian shipment. Think about the extra stress that this little fun stop adds to the already seriously compromised immune systems. The other reason I tell you is to let you know how absolutely stupid many of these idiots are that work with these animals for a living, and how little they actually know about them. How sad is that? In my opinion there is no excuse for that kind of stupidity. These guys could learn about what they are selling, but why bother. They don't need to as long as they can prey on the ignorance of the general pet buying public. By the way, when I say ignorance, I am simply referring to people who do not know or do not have the knowledge about these practices. It is not a bad thing. However, when I say stupid or idiot I am referring to people that are ignorant and want to stay that way (the Malaysian BTS story is a good example). Anyway, I have been thinking, I have a young Captive bred Australian Northern BTS (Tiliqua scincoides intermedia) that I would like to give to you. It is one of my hold backs, but I would not appreciate it as much as you do. If you can come up with shipping, it is yours. Anything else after that is up to you. I just want to see you get a good skink. e-mail me at tiliquaman@aol.com

n/p
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Edward
Carpe diem

Alex - I am really saddened to hear about the death of Elvis - it must have been devastating to go through and you really learnt the hard way about buying imported BTS - if it's any comfort, I didn't know the extent of the importers' nasty practices either, so don't be too hard on yourself. Make sure you battle the pet shop, and take your Dad with you for support.

James - what a kind and generous offer. Every now and again my faith in humanity is restored.

Susan

My Sympathy for the loss of Elvis. I too Had a Wild caught BTS which died due to Tick infestation. The sadder part about her death was that her 6 babies died with her. She was caught because of the ticks. After all ticks were removed she seemed to be doing alright but the stress must've gotten to her. I do feel your pain.
James - You are beyond Words. Not only do you constantly give us all advice but you are willing to part with on of your BTSs.
You're a great Bloke!

Luke.

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Edward
Carpe diem