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Don't ya just LOVE Newbies?

defconsul Sep 24, 2005 11:37 PM

This has got to be the greatest forum ever. I am a herp who recently relocated to Fort Worth from New Orleans, running away from some girl named Katrina

I have been collecting in the swamps of Louisiana since I was 8 (now 40), mostly speckled kings, louisiana milk, etc. My claim to fame is at 13, I collected a gulf salt marsh snake, quite accidentally, when I was looking for milk snakes.

As a kid, I dreamed about one day hunting for alternas and other tri colors. Now that I live in Texas, there's no excuse - plus my son has picked up the herp bug, and he's been bothering me about it. A childhood herp friend (also from New Orleans) is in Houston and wants to go too. So a road trip is in order this spring.

Hunting is west Texas has to be much different from swamp hunting. I see some terms (like "cut" that I don't understand. So before I start asking 2,354 stupid questions, is there a "west texas/gray-banded" FAQ somewhere?

Regards,

Richard

Replies (6)

chrish Sep 25, 2005 12:03 PM

Hunting is west Texas has to be much different from swamp hunting. I see some terms (like "cut" that I don't understand. So before I start asking 2,354 stupid questions, is there a "west texas/gray-banded" FAQ somewhere?
>>
>>Regards,
>>
>>Richard

Richard,

Kingsnake.com actually started out as an informative website devoted to the Gray-banded Kingsnake. That site is still alive and well at www.kingsnake.com/alterna/index.html
-----
Chris Harrison
San Antonio, TX

defconsul Sep 25, 2005 05:51 PM

Thanks for the response - that page is how I found this forum. I read that thesis, and some other documents that are available. I follow most of it - just some local terms I don't know. I am assuming that after seeing some of the habitat photos, that a "cut" is where the road cuts through the earth, forming walls along the side of the road? I can see how attractive it would be for alternas, and darn convenient for us to stop and look.

Back in swampsville, the best way to get speckled king snakes are to turn over dumped trash and break open hollow railroad ties. The only time you'd find them AOR is in the spring, just before or right after a rain. Is trash a viable habitat for alternas in the eastern (greener, more populated) parts of its range?

My gut is telling me north of Dryden and La Linda. I hear the more north of Devil's river you can get, the better - but it is challenging unless you have a 4x4. I know no one is going to give away their hotspot, but any pointers for location would be great. Also interested in other herps, but the focus is gray-banded.

If Davis Mountain produces so few specimens, why is it such a favorite with a lot of people?

OooOOOOooo, here's another one. What are the challenges with collecting south of the border? I speak spanish fluently, so I am not concerned with communicating. I don't mind spending mordida to keep what I catch, but I want to be respectful, and treat their Big Bends just as I would my own. That said, I am assuming Mexico is not as well collected as the north side of Rio Bravo. Is that a correct assumption?

I am not into hot stuff, but is really true that Mojaves are also in this range?

Thanks for your replies!

Richard

chrish Sep 25, 2005 08:09 PM

I am assuming that after seeing some of the habitat photos, that a "cut" is where the road cuts through the earth, forming walls along the side of the road? I can see how attractive it would be for alternas, and darn convenient for us to stop and look.

Correct. A cut is a roadcut where part of a hill is removed to allow a road to pass. These porous openings to the underground crevices are often hunted by alterna (and many other snakes) at night.
Here is a cut in Crockett county that has produced alterna -

The only time you'd find them AOR is in the spring, just before or right after a rain.

In east Texas I have found many speckled kings AOR after a nice spring shower, but also AOR at night in the summer months.

Is trash a viable habitat for alternas in the eastern (greener, more populated) parts of its range?

No. A few alterna have been found under rocks, but many people have flipped thousands of rocks over the years and failed to find them. They are generally underground or out foraging at night.

My gut is telling me north of Dryden and La Linda. I hear the more north of Devil's river you can get, the better - but it is challenging unless you have a 4x4. I know no one is going to give away their hotspot, but any pointers for location would be great.

More alterna are found along the big roadcuts along highway 90 near Langtry or on 277 north of Del Rio (around Loma Alta). It appears they are slightly more common there and if your goal is to find one, that is a good place to start looking.

If Davis Mountain produces so few specimens, why is it such a favorite with a lot of people?

Generally rarer localities make the snakes more "popular". I personally don't find the Davis Mtn. snakes all that pretty, but to each their own.

What are the challenges with collecting south of the border?

Simple. It is illegal to collect wildlife in Mexico without the appropriate scientific collecting permits. Those are not given out very readily, only to credentialed scientist doing documented research, and certainly not just for collecting snakes.
Furthermore, if you have ever travelled in Mexico, one of the rarest things in that country is a quiet road to roadhunt. There are some, but most of the paved roads are very busy.

I don't mind spending mordida to keep what I catch

Offering mordida is a good way to end up in prison. The 1970s are over and Mexico has cracked down on corruption tremendously. If you have that little respect for the nation, its people, and its laws you should probably stay home.

Furthermore, even if you were irresponsible enough to catch a snake in Mexico, do you plan to offer mordita to the US Customs guys as well? It is of course illegal to bring live animals or animal products into the US from Mexico. The fines start at around $10,000.
You can pretty much forget the idea of collecting there, and frankly, alterna is not likely to be any more common on the south side of the river.

I am not into hot stuff, but is really true that Mojaves are also in this range?

Mohaves get into the far western counties of Texas (check a range map). Where Mojaves are common, alterna are few and far in between.

Remember, alterna hunting isn't like catching speckled kingsnakes.
Even if you go out under ideal conditions, you are likely not to find one. If you spend a week hunting all night every night in the good time of the year (May-July), you have a better chance of finding one. Some people get lucky and find one 10 minutes out on their first night. Many other people spend years looking to find their first.
Not trying to discourage you, just make sure you have realistic expectations.
-----
Chris Harrison
San Antonio, TX

defconsul Sep 25, 2005 09:30 PM

Hey, don't be offended about the mordida comment. I have worked in Latin America my entire profressional life (25 years), and it is a reality. I've paid a Brazilian general $50,000 to "expedite" network equipment into Brazil, $5.00 take care of traffic infractions in Managua (everyday I was there it seemed), $2.00 for the motorcycle helmet law in Manila, and as recently as one year ago, $20 to a policman in Tijuana. I don't know why I should go to jail when I report that my credit card was stolen while pointing directly to the guy who stole it, who obviously knew the officer really well - but what can you do? Mordida! It boils down to everyday life. There are good cops, and there are bad cops. Same with priests, CEOs, waiters. I don't know that I would call it an art, but there is definately a method to it - it's hard to explain, but you know when it's an option. And then you have to position it correctly or you are right, you could land your butt in jail. And if you think that the US is immune, maybe one day if we meet and have a cup of coffee, I'll tell you a story about a couple of US customs and immigration agents in Brownsville

As for permits/licenses, that's why I was asking - I don't know. Back when I was a kid, getting milksnakes from Nicaragua was a matter of no licenses in Nicaragua and just a standard fee and a generous limit from US wildlife - I am sure things have changed since then. If it's not worth the time/expense or it is illegal, I am not interested.

I know they are a hard find. Don't worry, I am dedicated and determined. I am a professional Louisiana milksnake collector who doesn't get disappointed easily. We go months without a single specimen, and we LIVE there, hahahaha. We are going for the dream, the experience (even if it is only once), the love of doing it. If I wanted an alterna, I'd buy one. My fishing friends ask me all the time if I want to go, and I ask them "Isn't that what supermarkets and restaurants are for?" But I hate fishing! Snake collecting? I'm in!

Warmest Regards,

Richard

troy h Sep 25, 2005 09:00 PM

I just got back from the Davis Mts (just hunted last night) and I found 1 Blackhood Snake, 1 Rock Rattlesnake, and 2 Baird's Ratsnakes . . . so stuff is still moving on the cuts . . .

Troy

defconsul Sep 25, 2005 09:43 PM

Well, I currently have hurricane stuff to take care of. I should be free around the time season starts. I wanted to go during the season so I might meet a few of you, and junior is out of school...

Regards,

Richard

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