Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I am about to purchase a new morph and am undecided about which is the right one to buy. I like each one equally but wanted to throw it out there. I eventually want to produce pastel ghosts or bumble bees depending on my route. I can get very good deals on the following: Female lemon pastel, female spider, male ghost, female ghost, mojave male, pairs of het ghosts.

I currently have adult pastel male, adult male het ghost, pair of adult het albinos and 10 big normal adult females.

I realise there is alot of scope here but I'd thought I'd throw it out there!!!

Many thanks
David.

go with whichever appeals to you most, why would you want to work with anything else?

Cole Maas

Well, if I could choose 2, I'd pick the female spider and female ghost. You said you wanted to make pastel ghosts and bumblebees...pastel male x spider female = (hopefully) bumblebees, and pastel male x female ghost = pastels 100% het ghost. That's what I'd get if I wanted pastel ghosts and bumblebees.

Since I think you said you could only get one, you'd really just have to decide which morph you'd rather go for. You could also go for pastaves (mojave pastel) or super pastels, too.

It's up to you, this is just my opinion.
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Ryan Farris

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The most important thing is to work with what you like if you like Bubmble bees then you need a pastel and spider - you've got the male pastel now you can get a female spider and you are good to go. Or what I would do is pick up a male spider now. Breed your pastels this season, hold back one female pastel (or more). Breed the male spider and your male pastel to normals for the next couple of years while that female pastel(s) grows up then you've got a bumble bee project. This way you have income from the two males plus holdbacks while your females are growing. If you can afford to pick up a ghost female or het for the one you have now - then you have a project on the back burner too. Somewhere along the line you might find another project that you want to start - you never know. It all depends on what your tastes are and your goals - are you breeding just cause you like to breed balls - are you breeding to get one particular animal - are you breeding to improve your collection - are you breeding to put yourself through college (LOL)etc. In which case there would be a different strategy for each if you get my drift.
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Tosha

"Nihil facimus sed id bene facimus"

7.33.0 Ball Python (Harry and Fluffy and gang)
1.0.0 Angolan Python (Anakin Skywalker)
0.0.1 Green Tree Python (Verdi - yeah I know but my kids love the book)
0.2.0 Feline (Pippen and Pandora)
0.0.1 Desert Tortoise (Pope John Paul aka JP )
2.2.1 Fish (1,2,3,4)
0.0.2 frogs rescued from pool skimmer

Ghosts will always be a hot seller, and the price has been the same for a long time and will continue to stay that way for a while. It's a safe bet with the laws of supply and demand. Regular female ghosts sell themselves.

Mike Brooks
TNS Reptiles
Long Island, NY
631-732-4233

Go with your gut and which one you want to produce most. That is exactly what we did. What ever you choose will be rewarding and alot of fun. All you need to do is hatch some offspring and everything else falls into place...

Joe and Wes
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c'mon now! Ya gotta be a little more partial to one over the other. Start there and work your way round to the rest in time. If ya ain't older than dirt, like me, you find time for the rest.

Quig

We are really not. It is all about the collection for us. We want to have all the morphs out there and in great numbers. We are always acquiring new projects all the time. We say go with your gut because sometimes a new cross is made with two animals and then all of a sudden a certain morph is a must have when before the cross was made that certain morph wasn't so high on the acquiring list. If you are going with a codom We would pick an animal that has a super form so you can make supers. We really think simple recessive traits are the most stable out there. When you have a codom or dominat snake all you need is a male and a bunch of normal females to make that snake. The prices usally drop quicker becaue more people are producing the animals and the supply exceeds the demand so the price drops. In this case the only thing that usually can keep the prices from falling so quickly or at all is the desirable new crosses that they make which creates more demand for the animal or animals that made the new cross. If you are delaing with a simple recessive trait you need homozygous animals and het females to make any in numbers. We have both and are totally addicted to each. That is why I say go with your gut. What do you want to produce most? As long as it is in your budget go for it.

Joe and Wes
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How many Balls have you actually hatched out as of right now? If the answer is none, I would suggest setting up your incubator, making sure you have top of the line caging, and thermostats, making sure you have a baby rack...etc. Do not make the same mistakes I made....which were: I hatched out tons of Bearded Dragons in my Hovabator, and tried to use it for Balls. I ended up having all 20 or so eggs from my first year mold. Buy trios, probably het trios, if you buy pairs, chances are one may not eat as good as the other, and then you waste an entire year or more waiting for the other to catch up. Do not go into debt to get Ball morphs, I DID NOT, paid cash for everything, and was probably the one thing I did right. Buy females, female Ghost, female Pastels, female Hets, and if you can get a good deal, female spiders and Mojaves. You have a Pastel male, so NO female you buy will go to waste, even if you do not pair her up with a homozygous animal of her Morph. For instance, if you buy a Mojave female, and end up not having the $$$$ for a Mojave male, or for whatever reason, you do not get a male, you can breed your Pastel male to the Mojave female, and get some nice babies. I would get a ghost female for sure. I collect art, and the rule of thumb in art collecting is BUY WHAT YOU LIKE! If your male Pied does not eat for you, and does not breed until he is three years old, but you love Pieds, you can at least look at him Also, normal females are a good way to go, you can always make dom or co doms, or 100% hets with them. But, do not make your hobby "work", it will get old fast, buy what you can take care of, and nothing more. Do not bank on making money, do not bank on making your house payment with snake money, for me, anything I get from reptiles is always extra! Vacation money, or CC payment money, but if you are banking on making X amount of money, and you NEED that money, you will have a rough time.

I can't think of why buying female spiders is smart. There is no super(that I know of). If you want bumblebees, buy a male spider and female pastels. You could produce super pastels with your male and the females you would buy.
You could breed your spider male to anything, including the pastel females to make bumblebees.
It's a lot cheaper to buy a male spider and a bunch of pastel females than it is to buy a male pastel and a bunch of female spiders.
PLUS- if you get a male bumblebee, you will have the adult female pastels to breed back to it as soon as it is ready and you can make killerbees.
You can't male killerbees without the pastel females, which is why the spider female is useless(IMO).
Additionally, you could probably get more for a nice adult pastel female than you could for an adult spider female.
I was thinking the same with the female spider idea until someone gave me the heads up I just gave you.

Cole Maas

I disagree with you to a point. If your goal is to create crosses with spiders, then females are very important. Look at it this way. if you want to produce hypo spiders, what is the cheapest way to do it. a male ghost and female spider, 3.5k out of your pocket and you have the ingredients. then you buy a few het ghost females and now you have a ghost and ghost spider project going for less than 5k out of pocket. if you buy the male spider and female ghost you just spent 6k out of pocket. it works the same way with whatever simple recessive you intend on crossing with dominant mutations. but anyway out of that list, what i don't have that i want is a mojave and plan on picking up 1 or 2 next season to hopefully start a hypo pastave project.

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2.3 het pied (RDR, alan bosch x 2, BHB x 2)
1.1 het albino (ben siegel, gulf coast)
1.2 het citrus ghost(gulf coast line)
1.0 citrus ghost (gulf coast line)
0.1 graz pastel female
1.6 05 normal bp's
0.6 04 normal bp's
2.5 adult normal bp's (some need breeding to see if norm)
4 various corns
0.1 brazilian rainbow boa (alan bosch)
1.0 american pit bull terrior
1.1 taco dogs (ankle biters)
1.0 grey cat
1.1 bearded dragons

a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrior as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!

Buying a female spider for about $2K would be smart, vs. $3500 for a male, WHEN he already has a male Pastel, and wants bumblebees. It is never a bad thing to have morph females, and right now, spider female are pretty cheap. Is it the perfect way of doing it, no, but it might work for him.

...for being somewhat out of the loop. Is $2K really the going price for a female Spider? LMAO I remember everyone giving BC a hard time for advertising them at $3.5K just a few short months ago. LMAO That's great. =)

Chris
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mean people suck

Tho no one probably wants to admit it - but I've talked with a lot of people that are having a hard time getting rid of spiders and pastels this season - I am sure there are plenty that can't keep them on the shelf too - but yeah - I've seen lots of male spiders down to $2500 and females below $2K - next summer you they'll both probably be less than $2K - you'll be able to pick up a pair for what they started at this season. Ironic isn't it.
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Tosha

"Nihil facimus sed id bene facimus"

7.33.0 Ball Python (Harry and Fluffy and gang)
1.0.0 Angolan Python (Anakin Skywalker)
0.0.1 Green Tree Python (Verdi - yeah I know but my kids love the book)
0.2.0 Feline (Pippen and Pandora)
0.0.1 Desert Tortoise (Pope John Paul aka JP )
2.2.1 Fish (1,2,3,4)
0.0.2 frogs rescued from pool skimmer

Ya just do what your heart says! Pic your favorite! Personally,
I would go with the female Pastel and make a super! But I also love orange ghosts. Don't worry.. You'll make the right decision.

Hillary
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J & H Reptiles

What I mean by the pastel females is simple.

You could buy a 5 lot of pastel females for 5-6k without any trouble, and a male spider for 3, maybe 3.5.
Using the high range numbers our totals are 9.5k

Oppositely you could keep your male pastel and buy a 5 lot of female spiders for 10k(just using rough numbers here), and we won't even include the cost of your pastel male.

Breed them all, use 6 eggs per clutch as a number and you wind up in both situations with 7.5 bumblebees(punnet square wise).

Spdider female scenario:
Now you've got your bumblebees, but your only hope at superbees is to breed them to their sisters, which will take a few years for them to mature, unless you go and buy female pastels, but buying adults isn't cheap. Breeding the bumblebees back to spider females is only going to produce more bumblebees and spiders.

Pastel female scenario:
You have your bumblebees, and you should have a male. Get him up to size in a year or so and you will already have 5 adult female pastels ready to go. Theoretically you could produce 3 or 4 superbees that season. Not to mention you might also get some super pastels. AND, you spent less overall on your original breeding stock.

I'm not saying spider females are bad but you can't make superbees with them.

Cole Maas