Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Here is my backyard waterfall/pond that I just completed, using the same methods and techniques(along with some 'tricks of the trade') that I have outlined in the DIY section of my website.

I'm just curious if anybody has tried/used the general method that I have outlined on my site for faux rock fabrication?? It seems that most people who decide to make 'synthetic' rocks out of the styrofoam and grout materials, end up with something that looks like a blob of grout(exactly what it is). Either that, or they end up with very unnatural formations(random ledges/shelves protruding from the walls, no stratification, etc..).

I understand that the grout method is quicker and cheaper, and appeals to most hobbyists, but I feel that it yields an inferior, unnatural end product, when compared to such a method that I, as well as the exhibitry industry has been using for decades now).

So what do you guys think of my end result with this waterfall?

Cheers folks,

BOb

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Treemonitors.com

Beautiful work!!! I had planned on making waterfall for my 40 gallon BP cage I'm buying, but couldn't get the "rock" to look right, I would have never thought to do it like that, thanx for the spark of creative genius!!

Truly nice work! We have a lot of rock work in our exhibits at the zoo that were constructed in exactly the same way. I would like to utilize some of the techniques you outlined but I am going to have to wait until I can move into a larger place so I can really expand my habitats. Great waterfall though. Do you do this sort of work as a full-time gig?
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Matt Campbell
25 years herp keeping experience
Full-time zookeeper
Personal collection - 21 snakes (9 genera), 20 lizards (4 genera), 6 chelonians (2 genera)

Hi Matt,

At the moment I am only doing such projects as they come along and "fall into my lap", as I am a full time Ecology and Evolutionary biology student, and do not have the time, money, or resources at the moment to pursue this as a full time gig. The majority of exhibit and enclosure work that I've done here in the New York area have been for people I have met locally at shows, the local herpetological society, a couple of reptile shops, for previous zoological institutions I worked(where I really got into all of this),and by word of mouth. I have never really advertised my services, however if I wasn't preoccupied with my collection of monitors and school(among other things), I would very well enjoy doing such a thing for a living, even if it were just temporary for a couple of years.
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Treemonitors.com

I've often considered the possibility of going to work for a zoological exhibit construction firm. As I become more and more interested in making truly realistic vivariums I become more interested in trying to do something like this on the side. I first became interested in and aware of this niche in the zoological park business when the nature center I volunteered at in Athens, GA had a company design their new wetlands/beaver pond exhibit. The guys doing the work were the same ones who did the Tennessee Aquarium. It was really neat to see how they did everything. Also, interestingly enough as you had mentioned, they did everything with concrete even down to making some terrain inside of some large top-opening glass aquaria. Anyway, since working at a zoo I've become aware of companies like Cost of Wisconsin, who did some of our newest building exhibits. My only issue with working for a company like that would be the amount of travel involved - it would mean I'd have to get rid of most of my collection of animals because I'd be on the road too much to take care of them all. So, until then I'll work on my own stuff and maybe branch out into local side jobs in the future.
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Matt Campbell
25 years herp keeping experience
Full-time zookeeper
Personal collection - 21 snakes (9 genera), 20 lizards (4 genera), 6 chelonians (2 genera)

I have had a couple of opportunities to go into this line of work. I did several displays for one zoo and even though I was not absolutely happy with the results, I did get positive write-up in two zoo review books of some sort. I never have seen either write up.

Alas, the travel and my 36 year old back have kept me away from that line of work.

I will point out, however, that the pros do use foam in many circumstances. In fact when I was trained by a guy from Larsen he recommended it for small exhibits.

I ended up making my own custom blend of concrete that worked very well. I only recently threw away some of the rubber molds I used for texturing the rock.

Did you make those molds yourself or did you order them somewhere? If you did make them, what kind of equipment would you need? For those of us with not much or no experience in striating and texturing faux rock, it would be invaluable. Thanks.

Steve

Hi Steve,

I made the molds myself, although it's been over 10 years ago now. I ordered a two-part rubber moulding compound. I don't remember the name of the company nor the product, but that should not matter. Any product with a bit of flexibility once cured should be fine.

I think mixed up the rubber and applied it about 1" thick to rocks, trees, or whatever else looked cool. I even found a section of soil/ground that had a really cool texture to it. I think it was an old puddle that had dried rock hard.

Green dish soap was applied to the substrate first so the mold would release once cured. I just brushed the dish soap on full strength. Molds were removed after 12 hours or so and allowed to fully cure.

Most of these molds were about the size of my outstretched hand. I would apply my concrete mix to the lathe and I would then pound these molds into the curing concrete with the back of my hand.

Biggest surprise was how fine of a texture the molds would hold and transfer to the curing concrete. When I started out I made molds with a lot of texture, etc. but eventually found more subtle textures could also be formed into the concrete.

Another point is that you can use rocks themselves or even sections of branches to transfer texture to the concrete. The rubber offers the advantage of being a negative cast, however, since it's the natural product in reverse. The natural shape of the object ends up being in the concrete when using a mold. I also like how the rubber offers a bit of flexibility around irregular shapes.

Lastly, I should add that the basic form of the faux rock was done with the lathe and concrete itself. The molds were only used to create texture in the surface. These molds are not used, for example, to create a basketball sized boulder. The basic shape of the boulder is made from lathe and concrete. The texture of the surface comes from the mold.

Make sense?

N/P

I feel inclined to add that you can buy premade rubber molds if you prefer - just check any local hobby store, or websites that sell landscaping materials for model trains or miniature diorama. I've seen rubber molds for sale that were as large as 32" across, and in most cases they were under $30 (I'd have to check again). Just do a google search for "rubber rock molds".

And molds can be used over and over again, so having several of different textures could really come in handy!
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::i believe in joy > http://www.winds.org/nekomi/hope.html

::my homepage > http://www.winds.org/nekomi

My Growing Zoo:

1.0 Husband (Byron) ^_^
0.1 black cat (Shade)
0.1 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (Zia)
1.0 Leucistic Ratsnake (Houdini)
1.2 Cockatoo cichlids (A. cacatuoides yellow-gold)
1.2 Panduro cichlids (A. panduro)

>>Just do a google search for "rubber rock molds".

I did and some of those molds look like they would be very nice. It also turned up some nice links that would be of help to reptile enthusiasts.

Good tip...

Thanks, Chris. My father was an avid model railroader while I was growing up, and I used to spend a lot of time reading through his hobby magazines as a kid - that's where I learned about the rock molds, among other techniques.

I've really been surprised at how many hobbies can take a page from model railroading products and ideas! Another great field to look into is, of course, DIY aquarium construction. That community is leaps and bounds ahead of the reptile community when it comes to available info on various DIY construction methods for rock walls, backgrounds, actual cabinets and aquariums, etc. etc.

http://www.cichlid-forum.com has an extensive DIY article index with some topics that could definitely be carried over into reptile habitat-building.

Anyway, sorry to get so long-winded! Hope this sparks creative juices for some folks!
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::i believe in joy > http://www.winds.org/nekomi/hope.html

::my homepage > http://www.winds.org/nekomi

My Growing Zoo:

1.0 Husband (Byron) ^_^
0.1 black cat (Shade)
0.1 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (Zia)
1.0 Leucistic Ratsnake (Houdini)
1.2 Cockatoo cichlids (A. cacatuoides yellow-gold)
1.2 Panduro cichlids (A. panduro)

Yeah, I tell people to google stuff all the time and include cichlid as one of their search terms. Amazing what comes up.

The train thing is relatively new to me save for one guy who has posted a faux rock link from a hobbyist train site. Obviously some good stuff out there from the one search you recommended. Tweak some key words and there is probably even more.

Not only are they leaps ahead of us, the DIY parts of their pages are much easier to follow.

Yeah, the cichlid-forum site is laid out really well. I'm keeping two pairs of South American dwarf cichlids myself, and that's how I came across that site originally. Among all types of aquarists, we cichlid-keepers seem to be the most fanatical of all... Probably why "cichlid" is an excellent search term to include, like you mentioned.

Anyway, glad that you found the links to be of interest.
-----
::i believe in joy > http://www.winds.org/nekomi/hope.html

::my homepage > http://www.winds.org/nekomi

My Growing Zoo:

1.0 Husband (Byron) ^_^
0.1 black cat (Shade)
0.1 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (Zia)
1.0 Leucistic Ratsnake (Houdini)
1.2 Cockatoo cichlids (A. cacatuoides yellow-gold)
1.2 Panduro cichlids (A. panduro)

I don't think that its big enough. Do you actually have tree monitors out there?

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1.1 Bearded Dragons
1.2 Maroantsetra Panther Chameleons
1.0 Long Tailed Grass Lizard
500 Escaped Crickets

Haha... no, I certainly don't have my tree monitors out there. This is more of a focal point for my backyard and my landscapting. Besides, a rock waterfall/cliff setup wouldn't exactly be ideal for a tree monitor.

As for being too small, I have used the same methods and principles that I used here, to create exhibits that were as small as 2'x2'x2', in fact I did a really neat one that was based upon a photo sent to me by a friend who visits the Pilbara Region of northern Australia that was only 8cubic feet. In such cases of small enclosures like that, there is no need to use rebar/wiring framing; if the the diamond lathe is affixed directly to the enclosure walls, that should be stable enough until the application cures/dries.

While the materials and such aren't all that important(although I do feel that a portland cement/sand aggregate has more of a natural texture to it than most tile grouts), it's the methods and techniques of shaping, carving and coloring the rocks which makes for an impressive end result.

Most people here who make "naturalistic" displays using grout, simply just plop it on their foam background, in shapes and forms that are in no ways 'naturally occurring'. Like I said before, random shelves/platforms sticking out from the walls, perfectly stacked rectangles(nothing is perfect in nature!!), no stratification, no shading/coloring, etc... add to a poor finished product(in my opinion), and are in no way "naturalistic"(again, my opinion).

I think that if most people studied geological formations, learned a bit how they are formed, how minerals leach into and out of the rocks, how cracks form, etc, then you will gain a better understanding of how they exist in nature, where you can then take that concept towards your own exhibits/enclosures. From what I see from photos in this website's photo gallery's, as well as other similar sites' galleries, is that people have a poor understanding of what "natural" really looks like. Most of these DIY faux rock projects just end up looking like a pile of grout.

Good luck with your design/project. I would suggest you take some photos of a really cool looking formation around you, or even off the internet, and try to replicate it that way, as opposed to making it according to what you may think a rock/boulder/cliff may look like.. Trust me, it helps!

Cheers, thanks for the compliments, take care and have a wonderful day!

Bob
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Treemonitors.com

>>Here is my backyard waterfall/pond that I just completed, using the same methods and techniques(along with some 'tricks of the trade') that I have outlined in the DIY section of my website.
>>
>>I'm just curious if anybody has tried/used the general method that I have outlined on my site for faux rock fabrication?? It seems that most people who decide to make 'synthetic' rocks out of the styrofoam and grout materials, end up with something that looks like a blob of grout(exactly what it is). Either that, or they end up with very unnatural formations(random ledges/shelves protruding from the walls, no stratification, etc..).
>>
>>I understand that the grout method is quicker and cheaper, and appeals to most hobbyists, but I feel that it yields an inferior, unnatural end product, when compared to such a method that I, as well as the exhibitry industry has been using for decades now).
>>
>>So what do you guys think of my end result with this waterfall?
>>
>>Cheers folks,
>>
>>BOb
>>
>>-----
>>Treemonitors.com

Nice work! I am getting into this "hobby" of custom made habitats and using foam and quick dry cement(really an anchoring cement that I had left-overs of.) Any ideas on sealants that would be safe to use or that could be used in fish aquariums? I have been talking with an independant pet store owner and he wants me to do some auquatic backgrounds but wants to make sure products will be safe for wildlife.
Check out the work I have done so far. in member's galleries.
I would appreciate your feedback.
thanks cdeer
1-bp
1-bci

>>Any ideas on sealants that would be safe to use or that could be used in fish aquariums?

One thought is Envirotex Lite or Kleer Koat, both are bar top epoxies, polymer based and solvent free. I have heard if them being used in aquaria.

In your case you'd probably want to dap them on with a brush, maybe even thin them somehow.

thanks for the info!