Reptile & Amphibian Forums

No, words of great wisdom, just an opinion. We have been trying since the beginning of this Hobby, to try and figure out; " what causes a female to throw slugs? " This is probably one of the biggest mysteries we have. Like most of you, I have heard and debated and even believed alot of these scenarios, that have been given by; novices and old time breeders alike. We have heard; " Keeping males too hot or even too cold or keeping females to hot or too cold or not giving the animals a cool cycle once a year and a whole other array of different philosophies. " Now, for me these could very well all be contributing factors and could definately be the case in most females throwing slugs, " no arguments there " , but what if none of these factors are in place? What if the husbandry is as prime and precise as it could possibly be in a captive enviroment and a female still throws slugs? Most puzzling, what if you have bred multiple females and the majority of them have good litters and a couple throw slugs and all of them have been subjected to the same exact husbandry? Maybe, the most puzzling is when you breed one male to lets say two females and one has a great litter and the other has slugs?It is mind boggling to an extent. I do believe that there could possibly be a formula that is being missed in alot of cases, but not with them all. In my opinion, maybe one contributing factor, that I have never heard discussed, could be as obvious as the nose on our face. Maybe some females, just do not know how to ovulate at the appropriate time in order to achieve fertilization? Maybe it is inmaturity or possibly even genetics; " meaning it could have been a female that was premature or not one of the genetically strong of the litter that would have never survived in the wild, but was able to in captivity, because of the T.L.C. provided by the keeper, " wich is why, I refuse to keep or raise anything premature? Like so many things in this Hobby, always more questions than answers and I do not pretend to have any, only opinions and I think this is a great discussion and I hope you guys will give your input as well. No, debates or arguments here, this is one of those things that; we are all grabbing at straws to figure out, but with enough shared knowledge, we may crack this nut?.........Johnson Herp

I'd LOVE a definitive answer as I just had a female drop about 24 slugs 4 days ago. My theory in relation to her is that I pulled the male too soon given WHEN she dropped them. Oh well, I just fed her about 5 minutes ago and she almost cracked the acrylic door trying to push it open to get to the rats, she just seemed RAVENOUS. So, I'm guessing she'll be ready again this season and I'll give it another shot. She was a virgin (and may still be) and inexperience could have been a factor as well. We'll see what happens this year as I'm hopefully putting 4 pair together (3 bcc and 1 bci) and I'll hope for the best.
jb
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Jonathan Brady
"Sarcasm is angers ugly cousin" -Dr. Buddy Rydell (Jack Nicholson) in "Anger Management".

My opinion would be that slugs mean a sperm problem. The female produced and cycled ova, but when there were supposed to be viable sperm in the ovaduct to fertilize them there wasn't. It could mean the male didn't breed her at the right time, was too young, too old, not cycled correctly himself, or some such thing. Mark

I believe that their is definately male Boas that may have dead sperm; " no matter what parameters are set in husbandry practices. " Chances are, all the scenarios that have been presented over the years can cause it, but my thing is when it comes to males who breed or have bred and produced viable litters from multiple females and suddenly one or more throw slugs. My problem with cycling is this; " In the 90s, when I really concentrated on breeding Boas, I had more success by not cycling, than when I did and when I stopped cycling, I had no health problems and yes I did it exactly the way that the " pros " told me too. " I know, when it came to Peruvians especially, they bred better and produced better in high heat, than any other time. Now, of course; " This is in my own personnal experiance, but I have seen breeding pairs of Boas that have been cycled and cooled and watched them drop slugs and others that have been kept in heat that was probably too hot by most of our standards and watched them drop viable litters and also visa-versa that scenario. " I guess, that is why; " I do not totally disagree with improper temps being the culprit, but I do not put alot of stock in it either. " Until some reall money is put into research on this and other subjects concerning these animals, we may just be drawing straws forever. I know some breeders out there that produce alot of Boas of different types and have very few slugs crop up, or they are just not talking about it, when it does? Who, really knows? If some of these " old coots " know the secret, I wish they would inlighten the rest of us. Slugs cause alot of undue stress on a female and alot of Boas could benefit from this info, " if it even exsists? "........Johnson Herp

i have not yet bred my boas, but i have a fair amount of experience in the reptile field as well as knowlege of biology and such.
in my opinion, there can not be one single reason or cause for the result of a litter full of slugs. there are many different explanations as to viable possible reasons which could cause a litter of slugs in general, but i would think that it would be best assumed that unless this is the consistant outcome of a particular pairing that each case is unique in its cause.
slugs are obviously the result of unfertalized eggs. possible causes could be genetics of either snake, physical deformed problems with the females reproductive system, as well as timing and environmental factors. the first two would be best proved through continuous production of slugs from an individual animal in multiple pairings.
personally i believe it to be far more likely that slugs would be the result of timing or environmental factors, such as some of the ones mentioned in other posts. if either of the animals is not mature (developed) enough then that could be your problem there. but in addition, stress, and other factors such as environemntal factors (temps etc) could also cause the problem. lastly as in humans things just dont always work out the way they are planned all the time.
i know this rambling probably has not saved you from lost sleep, but i dont think the slug problem can be pinned to one cause. your best bet would probably be to chalk it up to bad luck (if your two snakes are mature and developed enough to reproduce) and try it again. if you consistantly get slugs from a particular male or female then it is a possibility that they may be your slug problems solution and the only way to determine which one would be to breed both to other partners. I just dont see how one snake could be blamed for slugs, beacuse males can have problems such as low viable sperm counts as well as females having problems with egg production.
i could go on about this forever but the post has already gotten way to long. just keep your husbantry as close to whatever perfect is and hope you have luck on your side.

I have breed hoggs, bci, Longicauda and Kenyan sands a few times in the last couple of years and hope to add argys, bca's, balls (don’t ask my friends pressured me in to doing it I said no better they made me!) I have noticed a couple of things. Me sands eat their slugs; I have watched it on three at three different times with two females. In 04 my biggest sand had a litter 0f 26 live 3 stills 4 slugs. I watch her give birth and then after she recovered she eat the slugs and one of the stills after push the babies around to help them break their egg sacks. So maybe the reason some people don’t find slugs is because the females have eating them to help clean the area so predators aren’t attached to the smell. Female green condas have been documented doing the same.

Another reason I don't think it ether adult is this... in 04 I breed a smaller female bci (under 7 feet and 12 lbs, but 6 years old) she had 11 live 2 stills and 4 slugs. I didn't breed any of my animals this last season because I was moving in to a new place and didn't want to stress any gravid females. So come March 22 just after I moved her to my new place she drop 6 preemies and 4 slugs. She hasn't been with another snake since post ova shed in 04. So I don’t bad sperm caused the slugs in 04 if she retained sperm and had viable ova a year later from that same breeding.

I think it is more is more like that the egg gets fertilized and then dies shortly after. Some boas are more like to lose ova then others. Closely related animals like some of the first albinos and line breed island boas (you get a pair of brother sister from someone who got a pair of brother sister, etc...) are more like to have ova die off then two wild caught. etc...
Just my thoughts I might be off base. let me know what you think.
Micah

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I don't have any answers. I just want to add nutrition to the list of environmental factors that could affect fertility. It is a known fact, in animals from trout to humans, that substandard nutrition can reduce fertility and increase the percentage of still births.

Paul Hollander

I have three animals that have produced multiple viable litters. I have one female who has not had a viable litter and produced two litters of slugs. I now have a second female that birthed for the first time and produced slugs. I'll be switching males around this year for those animals that produced the slugs and see what happens. My husbandry is the same for all and it is just odd animals who throw good litters continue to do so and those that don't, never do.

We'll see what happens this year trying new males.

Mark