Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I was discussing this topic with someone while we where snake hunting the other day. In the rain and with a lack of snakes being found (only 4) I had time to think about this and I would like to hear what you guys think.

So the question was how many food items do you think a baby snake (kings for this forum) eat in their first year of life??

I was told I was crazy when I gave my answer the first time and it will likely be the same this time but here it goes.
I believe that on average babies from South Carolina south to Florida eat around - 100 food items in their first year. Not feedings but items ate. I further believe that they are eating reptiles that break down quicker than rodents to do this and that they are eating more than one item at a time.
Moving north I think it drops to about to between 50-75 items in the next area until you get to the north Virginia border and from there north likely less than 30 food items in the first year.

I am a east coast guy so you west coast guys will have to make up your own break points but obviously there would have to be regions for a answer like this. I have no real data to support this and I am not trying to say I am right but I thought the topic would be good on this forum. If only to see how your minds work out there.

So what do you guys think?????

Later Jason

I believe the 100 in the first year.

Well, I personally think that to even make an accurate guess you are leaving out the most basic components of this equation.

There are many factors that can influence what, and how frequent young snakes eat. Take competition for instance. There are only enough prey items to sustain "x" number of snakes. There are also "x" amount of different prey items that are acceptable prey. Snakes will disperse to sutiable habitat in the first year of their life. Most of these probably never make it due to predation, starvation, and lack of adequate cover against the elements. To make a prediction about how many prey items they eat you first need to know what prey itmes are available. This would mean that is would be essential to find out what prey species the habitat type supports, and how abundant they are. This is almost impossible. Not entirely, but almost. Then you would have to see what other species feed on the same prey items, and how dense their populations are. There are limiting factors, which means that snake "a" may have adequate cover in area "c", and it has limited competition, yet there are no prey species supported by the habitat it chose to occupy. The snake has one choice due to it's needs not being met, either leave or die. Then a red-tailed hawk swoops down and grabs him behind the head, and gulps him down. It's a hard life ain't it?

I could go on for hours, but you can see this is a very involved process that has way too many variables to even make a conclusion. If I could make any estimation of prey items eaten by a hatchling over the course of a year I would say it is far less than your prediction. Most of my baby snakes make countless attempts to catch live prey before they succeed. I wonder how often they encounter prey in the wild, and how many times out of ten they actually eat the prey. Most young snakes I encounter are rather slim, and hardly ever have freshly eaten meals that are noticeable. That would lead me to believe they eat far less often that we think they do. It is a good discussion, and I am interested to see what others think, but it is quite complicated to determine at the same time.

Whoa You are looking to far into this . We are assuming that they make it to their first birthday. Those that don't would not be included. So those in a good area with no food more than likely won't make it. They don't count and also since there is no way for us to know this is really a game of seeing what you think a young snake is doing within its first year. Since we don't know there is no wrong answer. For the record most small snake I have found with gut content had multiple items, hence my idea. That was in Florida and there is no doubt more food items available. So with that in mind how many food items do you think they have. Or did you already answer that LOL.

Later Jason

If you'll go back and read my post again I went through a few areas that were involved in assuming how much prey the ones that DID survive consumed.

It appears that what you are asking is this.......In a "perfect" environment how many items of prey would a kingsnake consume before it's first birthday?

LOL, well we don't live in a perfect world, and the truth is these snakes are in direct competition with eachother as well as other species. And even their prey has competition to thrive in an environment. So forgive me if I think too deeply on this matter, BUT to get an answer you MUST take into account all that I have mentioned and more. I mean for these little critters to consume 100 prey items in a year, when nearly half of that time is spent in brumation or hibernation that would mean that prey would literally have to be crawling into their mouths. That isn't nature, which is why most of them don't survive.

I have collected yearling snakes in areas where prey was abundant and they were hardly any larger than the snakes that were about to hatch in that area. Usually around here kingsnakes, as well as most others, hatch around late August to early September. I have caught snakes in July and early August that I know were not hatchlings, and they were just as small as snakes I find freshly hatched in September. And keep in mind prey is abundant. So with that said either the ones I have encountered are not very efficient hunters, or they are simply not consuming as much as we think they are.

Forgive me once again, I guess the biologist part of me is coming forth and I'm thinking too deeply, but I'll say it again, there are many factors that contribute to this.

...so heck I'll throw an answer at you.

I would assume that a snake in a perfect world could consume a small to moderately sized meal every 2-4 days. Divide that by roughly 210 days that are warm enough for them to hunt and digest prey.....hmmmm...possibly 70 prey items per year, if they are in perfect conditions.

LOL Thats kinda close to 100.

I hear (or read really) what you are saying but with that in mind I still think that the more southern snakes are way up there in number of food items eaten. Or to really qualify it the tropical climate snakes are way up there in my opinion where as desert snakes would be lower but I still think they are eating more than you think. When you are finding snakes that you think are yearlings is there any possibility that they are newborns?? This situation is what brought up the conversation when I was out herping. We found a small bull and the guy I was with thought it was last years and I thought this years. A hour later and we are talking about numbers of prey taken per year and bla bla bla.

I don't believe there are many snakes that starve as babies. I would go as far as to say less than 5% of healthy babies in the wild starve. That is based on my faith in nature. Do you believe the percentage is higher than that?? Again no wrong answer... unless it has been studied and there is a wrong answer I am just bouncing ideas off you guys to see what you think.
Later Jason

I went back and read again and you didn't answer but you did mention that most young snakes you find are thin. Is that because they are not in a food rich area and you are the "red Tailed hawk".
Later jason

Interesting. What makes you think that reptiles digest faster than rodents? Also Ive heard that depending on when they hatch reptiles from the north may or may not even get a meal in before brumation.
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How many until their first birthday. So after brumation is also included.
Later Jason

Sorry Keith I didn't answer one part. Faster digestion of reptiles. In that I don't count snakes and I know that is what you are thinking since I worded it vague. I am speaking more of lizards and frogs. I have noticed that back when i offered those items when I was starting out the snakes could eat a bunch (lizards) and digest them in about 2 days. Rodents seem to take longer. (3-4 days)
Later Jason

Oh and remember I might be nuts. HAHAHHAHA

Do you feed both reptiles and rodents to your snakes? because alot of my collection takes snakes/lizards, and I can say that rodents are digested alot faster than reptile prey.
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Mike
KingPin Reptiles Inc.
Helmz777@aol.com
www.freewebs.com/mikesnake
Updated 9/19 NEW PICS/INFO

Really, I had opposite results or at lest I think I did. i have not fed reptiles to my snakes for years so that may have something to do with it but I seem to remember that anoles went through the digestive tracks faster than mice. I could be way off, its been quite a long time.

What is your thoughts on the # of meals for the first year???
Later Jason

Ok... Well, in my experience, snake eating snakes, the prey can take anywhere from 4 days, to 10 days to be fully digested. It depends on the predator snake(i.e. non/venomous) and how large the prey was.

Anoles and skinks take anywhere from 2-5 days. Depending on how big the prey was, and once again, venomous or nonvenomous.

It will also vary with temperatures... So there are alot of variables to consider.

I think your estimations are near correct. Down south, 100 prey items in the first year seems likely. Although it seems you are not considering in some areas down south the snakes go off feed for a couple months, in a state of semi-hibernation. Plus I am doubting a snake eating 2 prey items a week, not all snakes have access to those sort of numbers. ESPECIALLY if they are say, neonate kings feeding on snakes. Then numbers would be something like 50 meals in the first year, EVEN if they are down south where it is warm year round.

Lots of variables.
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Mike
KingPin Reptiles Inc.
Helmz777@aol.com
www.freewebs.com/mikesnake
Updated 9/19 NEW PICS/INFO