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Q-ing in on the Tentacle TTO issue below

snakemastermyke Sep 26, 2005 10:39 PM

Sorry I didn't "Q"-in sooner, I have been busy with my King projects. They are hatching like crazy and taking all my time. Sorry to here about the tentacle. I still must wonder if Acros get the same fungus as tentacles or is something totally different.

Couple tests I ran:

Acro-Asian Syndrom:

Does not respond to baytril at any dosage.
This lessens the bacterial theory, since there is no positive or negative effect. Baytril is very effective for both negative gram and positive gram bacteria so... I gave it per oral once, no effect epidermal three times and IV (my nurse wife acutally did that one) once. So with no effect we are going to stop wasting our baytril and make the shot in the dark assumption it is not a bacteria. HOWEVER... Baytril does work on many other forms of dermitis seen in other herps. It is incredibly effective on both stomatis infections and the dermal infections I used to see a lot on my Nerodia Taxisplota. So I am assuming the regular dermal blisters in nerodia have no relation to Asian syndrom.

Back to TTO, although I am going to try and get another Acro so I can drain some of that asian syndrom liquid that occurs beneath the skin in a blister fashion. I hope testing this liquid will help us find more of what we are dealing with.

Well its coming up on a year now and my Acrochoruds is now feeding on its own and the fungus has come and gone a few times, but nothing to the point of skin damage or tissue damage. Everytime it gets bad its TTO time.

Charcoal Substitute
As to those how mentioned removing charcoal here is one great charcoal replacement. Run a regular filter, but instead of putting charcoal in the filter cartridge or canister use the large size coconut chips bedding. This takes about a week to see effectiveness, but it trap the benifical bacteria well and creates a naturual sump effect in a fresh water tank unlike any other. I was having trouble keeping my ammonia level down with the charcoal coming out all the time for the TTO. Now I have a coconut filter and now filter issues. Also a side note

Replies (8)

rick gordon Sep 27, 2005 02:28 PM

The coconut bedding, may add tanic acids to the tank which would lower the PH and hardness, and act as antifungul agent, I haven't tried it, but I assuming it would. I think with the tentacled snakes, at least, there are two possible causes, A fungal infection or reaction to ammonia in the water, or both. The ammonia may weaken there immune system, allowing the fungal infection. If you can, keep a log of the ammonia levels and see if their is a correlation to the break outs.

snakemastermyke Sep 28, 2005 11:43 PM

MY ammonia levels have never had the chance to spike in recent times, yet I have seen a few break outs so I might assume there is not a direct relation, however this might not be the case. I check ammonia levels daily and log it and thus far the only connection I can make is with shed cycle. Every time my snake goes to shed the fungus gets worse. Curious.

btma Sep 29, 2005 07:55 PM

"Every time my snake goes to shed the fungus gets worse. Curious."

--I can agree. My A. arafurae is fine until he gets ready to shed. Last shed he was fine all the way through, but there were some white "spots" on the shed skin itself. I think these snakes are just very "scary" and the entire shed process just really stresses then out.

Mine is in shed now and should shed in another 4-5 days according to the last cycle. His skin doesn't look all that great, but I am waiting to see what the result is. I am not using any treatments, but assuming that this is just part of their natural process in captivity.

I have also started keeping comets in the tank 24/7, so I am waiting to see if that's an issue. If it is--I'll go back to the way that was working before.

snakemastermyke Oct 02, 2005 07:29 PM

Yeah the shed cycle irritation is curious. As all snakes do I must assume that Acros develope oil between the old skin and new skin to ease the shedding process. I wonder if this "syndrom" is actually just a fungus that can develope in this oil? Just another theory since it gets so much worse before shedding.
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btma Oct 03, 2005 03:35 PM

This "pre-shed" fungus applies to A. granulatus also. So, that covers all 3.

I think one of the causes of these snakes decline in captivity is Handling and "treatments". These animal's muscles and skeleton where not designed to handle having to support its own body weight outside of the water and people with long term success repeatly say: "Don't Handle them." Period. Not "except for......". But PERIOD. Then when the spots do show up people begin "Treatments". Yep, kill'em with Kindness. Here's an example:

http://www.arafurae.net/blogit/index.php

This woman "Happened" to find some white spots on a recent shed of one of her 2 arafuras--then immediately started Treatments. Its young and smaller (they both are) and can apparently handle being taken out for cage cleaning (why?), inspection(again: why?) and to show her friends(Hello?)--maybe it has something to do with its small size and weight and maybe she has a natural instinct that tells her not to handle it like a terrestrial snake--I don't know. But treatments and inspections add a lot of stress--which common sense says: will make things WORSE. The interuption, capture and double handling for a salt bath is just a BAAAAD idea. Wonder why salt baths don't work? Think about. Its called STRESS. Turns out that what she was dealing with was just pre-shed white spots. My arafura has done the same thing: Looked beautiful for 2 months and had some white spots on its shed skin. Its apparently no big deal--if owners don't freak out and begin "Treatments". Luckily for her and her snakes, she got a grip and they are all ok last I heard. However, in her case, adding salt to the tank really isn't a good idea: Acrochordus snakes begin to stop drinking at an unknown salinity level--dehydration is another stress-filled problem that she may not have even been aware of.

Snakemastermyke: I am curious as to the conditions and parameters that You are keeping your javancius at? Fresh, Brackish, sea water? Temp or temp range? Filtration? Aquarium size? Snake size? Etc, etc, etc. All 3 acrochordus actually seem to have very similar husbandry, but there are some differences. I will be getting javanicus in the future and would like to obtain an understanding of what is working for you.
Kill'em with Kindness

btma Oct 03, 2005 03:50 PM

Temperature. 78-82F is the same as keeping these snake in winter Allllllll year long. Its not a wonder that they succumb and die. Try keeping a ratsnake at 55F all year long, bet it doesn't last 6 months. But then at 78-82F---Acrochodus doesn't either......

undfun Oct 13, 2005 11:57 PM

I think its been shown that shedding frequency increases with injury, so maybe these guys shed due to fungus rather than the other way around.

I wonder if anyone has seasoned a salt water tank so that it allows salt water fish to thrive, and only then introduced the snakes.

It might be that the snakes need very, very clean water.

btma Oct 14, 2005 05:12 PM

>>I think its been shown that shedding frequency increases with injury, so maybe these guys shed due to fungus rather than the other way around.>>

That hasn't been my experience: The shed is due and the fungus appears to arrive with the stress from it.

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