Reptile & Amphibian Forums

i must be slow...
im just confused and i dont know how to explain myself so im just going to blurt out what comes to mind... brace yourselves..
how do you get black pastels, pewter pastels, cinny pastels and all the other kinds of pastels out there? i know pastel to pastel makes a super. but is there a "chain" of pastels that make up a certain pastel?
like do you have to breed a certain type of pastel to make up another pastel?
im giving myself a headache..
i hope someone understands what i said?

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Under a dead ohio sky,
Eleven has been and will be waiting,
Defending his light,
And wondering...
Where the hell have I been?
Sleeping, lost, and numb.
So glad that I have found you.
I am wide awake and heading home.
TOOL

Well I am not positive ,but I think that a cinny is just like an other morph ,it is not "made". A pewter is "made" by crossing a cinny and a pastel. A cinny and a cinny make a super cinnamon. . any others that I forgot??
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0.1 blood python (Nefertitti)
0.1 bearded dragon (Kalypso)
1.0 ambanja panther (Neptune)
1.0 leopard gecko (Balaram)
0.3 ball pythons
0.0.1 blue tounge skink
0.0.1 red tail boa (Ra)
0.0.1 jungle X coastal carpet python (Loki)

How do you make a normal?

I think when you answer that you'll understand.

(I'm putting it like that because I don't know how to explain it)

LOL
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Ryan Farris

.

There are 2 basic types of pastel morphs that are not related.
A. Jungle pastels which are more yelow and black
B. Cinnamon pastels and black pastels which are the same thing - these are more cinnamon colored and have a distinctive pattern
Generally speaking when someone refers to a 'pastel' they are refering to a jungle pastel
These are both co-dom morphs... so if you don't see it, the gene is not there. you cannot breed 2 normals together and get either of these types of pastels
2 jungle pastels bred together might produce e a super pastel,
2 cinny's bred together might give youa super cinnamon which is actually a black snake.
A cinny and a jungle pastel bred together might produce a pewter pastel

Markusjayne has an excellent page on genetics
www.ballpython.ca
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"There is a fine line between a hobby and mental illness"
COLD BLOOD.........WARM HEART

Well, I think what you are looking for is this. What we call morphs are what in science we call genetic mutations. Some times in nature things mutate for no reason. This is how we get really tall people, really short people, black people, white people, and michael jackson. Sometimes these mutations can be "created" in labs, but thats a whole other topic, and is not common. So where does a come from? Some are combonations of other morphs, but most are natural mutations that someone found in the wild. Some bush guy is roaming around looking for snakes and he finds this great bright yellow ball python... he knows this is worth a few more dollars so he sells is as something special, it works its way through the chain and ends up in someones collection who is willing to try to "prove" it to be a genetic trait.

Now the breeder must get this new import healthy and breeding, the offspring is usually bred back to the wild parent, or the siblings. This is when you will see if its genetic or not. Not all mutations are genetic. Some really cool snakes can be non-genetic. One good example of a non-proven morph is the paradox albino. So once it is proven genetic, thats when you can chalk it up as a new morph. This is how 99% of the base morphs are found and reproduced. This is why SOMETIMES you will see some weak genetic lines of snakes, as inbreeding will bring out negative traits much quicker than not.

A few morphs are created by offspring of weird genetic parents. The lesser Platinum is an example of this. RDR has the orig Platinum (platty daddy). It was imported by RDR and he has produced lesser Platinums with him, but has yet to figure out how to produce a Platinum (thats why they call them the LESSER Platinum).

I believe cinny pastels and yellow pastels come from imported stock, now if someone has the original pastels back in africa and importing a select few every year, we may never know. It does seem like a good number of pastels get imported each year, but their could be a good number of wild pastels too! The same with piebalds, albinos, etc.

Is that what you where looking for???

Ben
American Tropics

Michael Jackson????

yes i understand know...
love the M.J. coment! lol.
thank you all very much for helping me out!!
-----
Under a dead ohio sky,
Eleven has been and will be waiting,
Defending his light,
And wondering...
Where the hell have I been?
Sleeping, lost, and numb.
So glad that I have found you.
I am wide awake and heading home.
TOOL

I feel it should also be covered, as long as I am spewing forth genetics info...

Comments such as in the below thread "New Black Pastel" that say MorphA has been linked to MorphB show people usually dont realize that even a same genetic line can mutate. I would not be surprised if cinnys split in to uncompatible lines. You could have a bunch of babies from the same mother all be genetically incompatible with each other, but still be compatible with their parents, and their own offspring. This is yet another example of genetic mutations. This could be an explination as to how the "Black Pastel" came about (Kinda like the origin of the paradox albino). As for being able to breed several different things togeather, all to produce a white/weird snake in the end does not mean their genetics are compatible at all or even has a link or any sort. That only means that when you combined them, their genetics freaked out and a weird snake is born. Most of the time controlled genetics can be combined such as albino to pied (albino pied), albino to axanthics (makes a snow). When you have a genetic (for lack of a beeter term) freak such as mojave or platty and you breed them togeather, its really not too much of a surprise you get some very unusual results sometimes.

Maybe this is too far, and is in every way my own 2 cents. Some of it is really just guesses, as we might never know the true story to some genetics. Any way it goes, I personally think its all very neat, and support all the projects, including the Black Pastels. I hope it turns out to make something new!!

Ben
American Tropics

LOL
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Under a dead ohio sky,
Eleven has been and will be waiting,
Defending his light,
And wondering...
Where the hell have I been?
Sleeping, lost, and numb.
So glad that I have found you.
I am wide awake and heading home.
TOOL

LOL, I'm with you on that one. Tryin' to understand all this genetics just makes me head hurt .

Quig

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