Reptile & Amphibian Forums

has anyone read this? Haha
Global Heper

Why was the discusion on diet deleted?

seriously, this is getting ridiculous.

this is the second discussion deleted. i understand the first could be seen as advertisement. but this is supposed to be a place to share information, and help other herp addicts. i guess trying to help diets is now a problem too.

who was calling me names after I went to bed forcing them to delete this discussion? haha

No really not sure what gives with it being deleted.

I have never called anyone names on this or any other forum,I simply stated my experiences (wich differ greatly from yours) and offered proof to back my claims.apperently opinions that stray from the status quo are not welcome here.
Goodbye
Ben

Hi Ben, I do not think its anything you said, I believe we all have to agree on all subjects, any thread with opposing viewpoints has been deleted.

In this case, I agree with you, whole prey items are great, as I have always recomended.

Nice pics and good luck, but please, do not post if you do not agree, hahahahahahahaha I really do agree with you. FR

I wasn't accusing you of anything. No need to get mad at me, I have no say on what stays and what gets deleted. I was suprised to see it gone this morning.

I know what you stated which is great, we both agree they need whole prey items. I just didn't agree that crayfish was good as a staple or lone food item.

But alas you showed proof that they worked as the staple mixed with other things. I was happy you had something to back up your claim. So yes it seems for dumerils it has worked.

In your opinion do you think it would work as the lone diet without adding anything to it? I am just curious if you have tried it that way.

Thanks

Hi Jody, for sure, there are other elements that control a diet too. For instance, we tested crickets with ackies, no supplimentation at all. And it worked without problem. It worked if the ackies were alone or in small numbers(2 or 3) When crickets without supplimentation failed was when I raised them in large groups. Supplimentation cured that.

Supplimenting the way we do it, has not seemed to be a problem indoor or outdoor, so we suppliment crickets with our own mix. See I can cover my bum too. But if I run out, I do not rush to buy more, I may wait a few months without effect, then buy more.

But as you know, cause you actually keep montiors, its no big deal. I think pasta(anything) would be fine for a few months.

Lastly, people who have to ask about diets, normally do not have other parts of husbandry understood either. This is were recomending something reliable is important. They can then work on other parts of husbandry.

Ben has shown a longterm to support his monitors, I am not sure if the diet is the key, I think he takes good care of them. And that is the key.

I do have one question, I know, I just can't quit while I am ahead. The question about what has more fat, bothers me. Doesn't a fat mouse have more fat then a skinny mouse. And, is there such think as a fat or skinny crawdad????? or a fat or skinny cricket? Are there fat turkeys? Cheers FR

Thanks for the kind words Frank.
I agree that as long as you are using species appropriate whole bodied prey, the type of prey doesn't matter.
I also agree that most who dont understand how diet works have bigger husbandry issues and keeping it simple for them is a good idea.With that said I have had poor results feeding rodent only diets(no breeding,poor color,weight,inactivity, etc.)Granted this experience is with Dumerilli and Rudicollis exclusively.I do think that these species (and some others) would do fabulously on a crayfish only diet-provided that the rest of the husbandry peramiters are met.Why would you want to feed only one type of prey tho... feeding a variety of items is fun.

You may want to have a word with Goon(Tracy) Her Rudi, has had a zillion clutches in the last two years(8 or 9, or something close) I believe she feeds mostly rodents, but you may want to ask and make sure.

I am not use what species approiate means, as each population of the same species may indeed have a totally different diet. Wish is was simplier, but it ain't. Thanks for sharing, FR

So you think that within each species they are adapted to eat only one food item? Or are limited to a type of food item?

If so I know why we cannot agree, as I look at that in a totally different way.

I also don't think choosing to feed something because it is "fun" is the best approach.

Its because they base it on what they read. A book wants them to be different so they say this or that. So the reader, believes this to be true.

So for species like albigs, they have rounded teeth for eating snails and mollusks. Except according to Dr. Ube Krebs, the climate changed and so did the prevailing diet. So their teeth are developed for one thing but time has changed that, now albigs are in need of further evolving. This IS an example he gave in a talk I attented.

So yes, Ben believes Dums consume some such diet in nature, but are there crayfish there? Do they really feed on crayfish, or is crayfish a reasonal faxcimile of what they would eat in nature. Do they feed on crayfish like creatures all year or part of the year. Are crayfish seasonal? What else would they feed on. And lastly, do we have something thats a reasonal faxsimile of that. Do all populations of Dums feed on the same things?????a very good question you know.

So what we have are those that want them to be different from eachother because they read that. Good enough, I hope it works for all of them, as well as it works for Ben.

I still think it(success) is more about doing the work and keep doing the work, that all this baloney. Like Ross Perod, said, "put the rubber to the road" In order for any of these theories to be of value, they got to put the rubber to the road. Thanks Ben for doing that. FR

OK,
Where in the hell did you get the idea that I think certain species of monitor eat only one type of prey?
What I said was that the type of prey does not matter as long as its whole bodied.

Why in the world would you want to agree with me?

I base my husbandry on my own personal experiences,trial/error.
I have been keeping monitors since1992 and dumerils since 1996,this has given me the opportunity to try many different aproaches,I have stuck with the ones that work for me.
I will not say that I dont care what others(you) do,because I am interested in monitors in captivity and like exchanging ideas.
But you must understand,I have never suggested that anyone change their husbandry,I was just relating my experience.

I am not sure why Frank thinks I base my diet on what others have written and not my own hisory?(sure I have read Krebs,but that is not why I feed crayfish)
Yes,crayfish are seasonal,I think in the wild Dumerilli eat mostly crab when available,but not exclusively.

Frank is right, let me do my work, I will continue to put my money where my mouth is.
Ben

That is why I asked what you meant by species appropriate. You mentioned that before saying whole bodied prey and it didnt matter what type. I thought you meant you looked at the prey item selection as what the species would eat in the wild such as fish for this type of monitor or birds for another etc.

Guess I was wrong but thats why I asked.

I see them eating whatever is available if crabs are plentiful then they will probly eat them, if mice then them, so on and so forth.

I know you base your opinion on what you have found to work for you. Which I already said was a great change from most. I wouldn't want or ask you to change anything.

Many people contribute to the thread, so in the recent posts, the question of varied diet is up for discussion, There are many who provided input. Most followups include more then one poster.

If someone else suggested a certain diet, crayfish for example, and you followup, with I use crayfish, then in essense you have agreed, with I am sure you do on a partial basis, but have thoughts of your own. unfortunately, this is also played as a game on the internet, which sort of makes it useless.

If someone asked me, why Ben is successful, I would say, he worked hard at it. I think thats my answer for me too. And Jody, except Jody has spread himself thin. hahahahahahahahaha Dang us people who like to many things. FR