Reptile & Amphibian Forums

today i took an animal fist aid and CPR class to supplement my first responder training. they only covered cats and dogs, which is frustraiting to me becuase i keep herps and other creatures.

so i was wonder what is done differently to:

turtles
lizards
snakes
amphbians

I do have some non herp related (birds) ones but those will be posted in the appriate forums.

thanks a bunch

ashley
-----
"I’m scared of those nasty big-eyed grey aliens, too. I think it’s that I don’t understand their motivations. I am confident of my ability to out-think, out-con, or if need be, tire-iron-upside-the-head demonic forces, ghosts and goblins, things that go bump in the night, etc. It’s the notion of something that doesn’t have any desire to talk to me except via anal probe that freaks me out"

CPR on a turtle! Now that's a job and a half don't you think

Herps are somewhat different when it comes to health care. CPR is generally not an issue for several reasons.

1)Herps get sick very slowly. They get worse slowly. If found on death's doorstep (CPR time), their illness is often so advanced that saving them is futile. Here's my vet plug again, but this is why it's always better to chance taking a healthy herp to the vet than to wait until it's too late.

2)Again, herps are slow. They're heart rates are difficult, if not impossible to read by first-aid'ers, and their respiratory rate vary's so much from species to temperature, to illness, to trauma ect. To be honest, it's hard enough to deterimine death in a reptile let alone when CPR is necessary.

It's awesome that you are interested in helping herps in need. (and other animals of course, but that's another forum )

If you come across an sick or injured herp here are a few pointers.

1)Bleeding and fractures should be stabalized as in other animals.

2)Mouth to nose respiration can be done (but as discussed above, is there a point?). Keep in mind that you can explode a herps very very delicate and small lungs very easily. Reptiles can utilize anearobic respiration, so I wouldn't have any of 2) high on your to do list.

3)Be familiar with as many species as you can. Sick/injured herps need to be kept at an elevated temperature. This temp should be at the higher half of their prefered optimal temperature zone. This will very greatly from species. The POTZ for a savanna monitor will quickly cook a leaf tailed gecko.

4)Be familiar with the reptile vet's in your area. If your doin' first aid, you need to take them (and the herp owner if it's not you) to the vet.

5)Protect yourself. Many reptiles are dangerous in your own way. Large lizards and snakes can seriously harm you as I"m sure you are aware of. Legal in your area of not (more common in the USA) there are venomous snakes both wild and imported kept as pets. Under any circumstance do not do first-aid on a "hot" herp unless you yourself are a "qualified" keeper.

Good luck, have fun, and I hope you never need to use your skills

Ian

hey thanks for the resonce!

even tho herps may get sick slow so that when they need it they are far too gone, its a skill i would like to have incase of other emergencies like say MR.Savanna monitor bites through a cord and shocks his self. i dont care what critter you are a good shock can stop a heart. what would be the compression rate and depth i would do?

so for respirations treat the small herps (or even the bigger ones) like you would a baby? not even a whole puff of the cheeks? or just blow lightly to their nostrils? also would you happen to know off hand what the typical respriation rates of the most commonly keept herps?

as far as taking pulse, in my kit i have a stethoscope, so no issues there for the critter ^_^.

now my biggest bit is treating Shock. due to their unique phisology what different would i do to them then say a human, or a dog or cat? would the mouth be the best place to check for capilary refill? or should i just rely on a weak pulse alone?

tho i have confidence in my skills at moving around wild hots..... administering first aid (though i would want to)i wouldnt do. simple rule ive learned from firstr aid is that if it isnt safe for me i dont have to do it. after all no one wants to be in the hospital hooked up to all sorts of IV's.

thanks for putting up with my questions

ashley

>>CPR on a turtle! Now that's a job and a half don't you think
>>
>>Herps are somewhat different when it comes to health care. CPR is generally not an issue for several reasons.
>>
>>1)Herps get sick very slowly. They get worse slowly. If found on death's doorstep (CPR time), their illness is often so advanced that saving them is futile. Here's my vet plug again, but this is why it's always better to chance taking a healthy herp to the vet than to wait until it's too late.
>>
>>2)Again, herps are slow. They're heart rates are difficult, if not impossible to read by first-aid'ers, and their respiratory rate vary's so much from species to temperature, to illness, to trauma ect. To be honest, it's hard enough to deterimine death in a reptile let alone when CPR is necessary.
>>
>>It's awesome that you are interested in helping herps in need. (and other animals of course, but that's another forum )
>>
>>If you come across an sick or injured herp here are a few pointers.
>>
>>1)Bleeding and fractures should be stabalized as in other animals.
>>
>>2)Mouth to nose respiration can be done (but as discussed above, is there a point?). Keep in mind that you can explode a herps very very delicate and small lungs very easily. Reptiles can utilize anearobic respiration, so I wouldn't have any of 2) high on your to do list.
>>
>>3)Be familiar with as many species as you can. Sick/injured herps need to be kept at an elevated temperature. This temp should be at the higher half of their prefered optimal temperature zone. This will very greatly from species. The POTZ for a savanna monitor will quickly cook a leaf tailed gecko.
>>
>>4)Be familiar with the reptile vet's in your area. If your doin' first aid, you need to take them (and the herp owner if it's not you) to the vet.
>>
>>5)Protect yourself. Many reptiles are dangerous in your own way. Large lizards and snakes can seriously harm you as I"m sure you are aware of. Legal in your area of not (more common in the USA) there are venomous snakes both wild and imported kept as pets. Under any circumstance do not do first-aid on a "hot" herp unless you yourself are a "qualified" keeper.
>>
>>Good luck, have fun, and I hope you never need to use your skills
>>
>>Ian
-----
"I’m scared of those nasty big-eyed grey aliens, too. I think it’s that I don’t understand their motivations. I am confident of my ability to out-think, out-con, or if need be, tire-iron-upside-the-head demonic forces, ghosts and goblins, things that go bump in the night, etc. It’s the notion of something that doesn’t have any desire to talk to me except via anal probe that freaks me out"

Ashley, for CPR, and all your questions, the #1 rule is to remember the variability with species. A leopard gecko is 10 times smaller than a savanna, but 100 times more fragile.

The compression rate of the heart for most species would be about 10 per minute or one every 6 seconds. Now I'm not saying that this would be a normal heart rate, but all things being considered, this would be adequate, and reflects the rate often seen under anesthetic. There are many factors affecting heart and respiratory rates. A small compression with your fingers should suffice. Know where the heart is; in lizards it is often much more cranial in the chest cavity. This may be deleterious to CPR as the shoulder musculature may be in the way. In snakes it is roughly at the end of the first third of the body.

With respirations, it is critical to understand the physiology of the lungs in reptiles. While mammals have a tissue comprised of millions of tiny aveoli sacs, reptiles have but one membranous balloon. This fragile and elastic tissue will be easily damaged in smaller critters, and even larger reptiles should be classified as fragile. Your chest compressions should be suffiecent in causing a small amount of air exchange. Breathing is not very important in reptiles that are being rushed to a vet clinic. Reptiles make use of anearobic respiration, in otherwards, they can utilize oxygen elsewhere in their body if need be.

You may find it benificial to use a gauze or cotton ball inbetween your stethoscope and the scales to minimize artifactual sounds. Also of interest is that the heart will beat for a long time post-mortem.

Ian