Reptile & Amphibian Forums

.. that's the buzz-word these days!

There are Boa that will mature and breed small. Here are some today-pics of my Tarahumara, Mexico boas, some of the very smallest and nicest of the Boa I've seen. These are just great boas!
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Those are full-adults CB 1998, breeders, the female has delivered four healthy litters. They are both about 43" in length. These animals have to be correctly managed. Genetics is certainly a part of the size-puzzle. Temperatures, feeding and other husbandry practice are also very important.

I look with real dismay at attempts by some breeders to bring the genetics of unique animals like this into their other projects.. First is the real potential for the loss of the special bloodline in culture through out-breeding and second, for the number of people who will end up with Boa they don't want when these experiments yield animals not-so-pretty and not-so-Dwarf as hoped.

(Sermon of the day).
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Gus
A. Rentfro
RioBravoReptiles.com
www.riobravoreptiles.com

"Quality is not an accident. Perfectly healthy animals are a minimum requirement.. everything else is just salesmanship" gus

I agree with you 100% Gus. I cringe when I see dwarf species all of the sudden being offered as het albino and I don't mean t albino. Obviously the Colombian albino gene has already been bred into dwarf species by supposedly "respected breeders". We've seen BCI and BCO crosses, Hog Island with Colombian hypo and even Peruvian mixes, which I have absolutely no use for, and now the dwarf gene pool is being threatened. All I can say is the more everyone plays with all of these crosses the more desirable your animals become IMHO. If anyone wants a pure line they're going to have to go to you or rely on fresh imports that occasionally become available.
Even though my business name is BoidMorphs don't be confused and think that I'm part of the problem because I don't agree with the melting pot anything goes for an extra buck philosophy that abounds today. Like anything else this market is determined by supply and demand. The only way to eliminate the muttification of animals is to flat out not support it. This is not meant to start a flame war but more of a calling for breeders to make every attempt to keep lines pure. I do NOT want to see Nicaraguans and other dwarf species bred with any and everything that crawls.

I think maybe the real reason for crosses...and creating dwarfs of any type....may be a little mis-understood.
Take for instance an albino dwarf, or color types ....the general public keeping reptiles would be better able to handle boas long term if they stayed smaller and more manageable.
That is why Bob Clark is working with Dwarf retics etc...

It's not about keeping a certain species intact, it's about creating a designer snake that can be duplicated...to offer the general population a better selection of size for any animal they desire.

There are alot of true undiluted species being bred by you all, and the demand will always be there for you...but there is a demand for smaller colorfull exotics, so those without the 500 foot snake room (LOL) can also enjoy this hobby!

Andy Federico

AJF Reptiles

I understand the reason for keeping lines pure, but what happens if every state picks up the "No Boids over 6'" law??? I know IL already has it along with a bunch of other states.. Does that mean we lose all of the flavored morphs because the smaller species so far don't have them naturally?? There are diehard "Pure" people and that's great, that means there will always be a genuine line of a certain animal available... But with the way laws are going, I don't think it's the worste idea to look towards shrinking our beautiful morphs, which by the way were still created by MOTHER NATURE... Just my jumbled, worthless .02
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Joe Lydon
Got Boids?

To the best of my knowledge, Illinois does not have this restriction. Certain Republic of Chicago suburbs have it in place but there is no legislation for the entire State.

As for dwarfs, this was my first and most pronounced project that I wanted to work with when I got back into this hobby. I have 5 proven BCI dwarfs right now. They were not crossbred in with the Tara's etc. Rather, after they were born they remained very small and when bred out produced offspring that again remained very small. Of the 5, 2 are hypo's (F1 and his F2 offspring) and they are at 4 feet in length at ages 5 years and 3.5 years. My 3 normals are at 3.5 feet and one at 3 foot all at 3 years of age.

I most definately see a marketplace for these animals in the very near future. With any luck, I will have a litter early next year of potential dwarf super salmons which I believe will be one of the cornerstones of my projects.

Griz

np
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Joe Lydon
Got Boids?

Native and Exotic Species
The Illinois Dangerous Animals Act (reference: IL CS 720-585) specifically prohibits the keeping of any poisonous or life-threatening reptile. Although no definition of what constitutes a life-threatening reptile is included in this regulation, Illinois currently considers any adult (over six feet in length) constricting snake and all crocodilians to be life-threatening.

By the way, tactful plug for your dwarf hypos. Good luck with them.
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Joe Lydon
Got Boids?

you are correct Ill. does have a 6ft law "on the books" it was however challenged in court by someone caught with a 10ft. Burmese and a 7ft.boa the judge determined the boa was not dangerous but the Burmese was so in effect the law was overturned but was not changed "on the books" I looked into this a few years ago

>>you are correct Ill. does have a 6ft law "on the books" it was however challenged in court by someone caught with a 10ft. Burmese and a 7ft.boa the judge determined the boa was not dangerous but the Burmese was so in effect the law was overturned but was not changed "on the books" I looked into this a few years ago

Ok now, "On the books" is it illegal to smoke or posess marijuana?? How many times has a cop confisgated a dime bag of weed from a 16yr old kid and then let him go?? Just because it's a law doesn't mean you're going to burn for it.. The law states no boids over 6'.. Now, if I get caught with a 9' boa am I going to get in trouble?? Who knows, BUT I could be punished to the extent of the law, it depends on the situation.. I'd suspect the 7' boa was fine because laws are usually overdramatized to ensure safety.. Take speed limits, they post 45mph, everyone does 50-55 and they cruise right past squad cars.. Now, if the same street was raised to 55mph, people would be doing 60-65.. Almost like the 6' law, 7'(50-55mph) is passable, but a 10' burmese (60-65) ISN'T. I don't see the law moving backwards anytime soon to allow boids over 6'...
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Joe Lydon
Got Boids?

Did you also realize it was illegal to eat ice cream on a Sunday in St Louis? I did not mean for my post to get you all riled up and why it did is beyond me. The fact of the matter is that this "law" was originally passed in the early 70's and then in 1986 when additional language was inserted this particular passage was left in. As has been stated, this one specific portion of the Act has been found to be without merit and ambiguous and as been thrown out not once but 100% of the time that it has been challenged. Thereby, making said law moot and unenforceable. That, to me, states that Illinois currently has no enforceable law on the books.

The comparison with marijane is apples to oranges and is not applicable in this particular comparison. Technically, are you correct? Yes, technically speaking. However, my assumption here is that you are also thereby 100% in violation of the law.

With that being said, I do believe that we are just a few accidents away from new language in which this section of the Act would be changed and not for the better. Hence the reason why I am working almost exclusively with dwarfs. Care to buy one? Oops, another tactless plug!

Griz

You're much too knowledgable for me, I'm only 22 and have the highschool education equivelant to a 1st semester 9th grader.. I can't argue with the smart guy.
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Joe Lydon
Got Boids?

I concur.

np

Hi Gus, great photos. We are really enjoying the young pair we got from you in Daytona a year ago. They have turned out to be very mellow snakes, after they got over their original brief hissy/pissy youngster stage. At a little over a year old ours are much lighter than your adults of course. The light greys and pinks on their sides are truly beautiful. We don't "push" growth on any of our snakes, and they are about 2 ft. now.

I hope that at some point someone will be able to legally collect some in the wild, and document them into current breeding programs. If I understand it correctly, the current populations in captivity probably represent a fairly narrow genetic base.

I won't be outcrossing ours with any other localities or morphs. This is a truly wonderful type to work with. Frank