Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I've provided a link to a recent article about the Florida Nile monitors. Is it simply reactionary hype? Is the concern about protected wildlife valid? I'm interested in people's opinions.
Meat-eating lizard scares Sanibel

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Scott Robert Ladd
1.0.0 Iguana (Rex)
1.1.0 African Giant Plated Lizard (Clyde, Cassie)
1.0.1 Uro mali (Wizard, Dizzy)
0.1.0 Corn Snake (Amber)
0.1.0 Red-Eared Sliders (Emerald)
0.0.1 Musk Turtle (Sausage)
1.1.0 Parakeet (Thor, Zeus)
1.4.0 Homo sapiens (Scott, Maria, Elora, Becky, Tessa)
blog: http://chaoticcoyote.blogspot.com/

In my opinion, this article (and the other one) is based on speculation and an overactive imagination,not facts. They are making this another "JAWS". False information is more dangerous than the monitors themselves. They are playing on peoples emotions. Report the facts and let individuals draw their own conclusions. What about survival of the fitest? This is a non native species, and it doesnt belong there but it wasnt intrduced. It swam there on its own, isnt that the way many species populated islands. Thats how the finches in the galopagos got there. My opinion is let nature take its course. I dont want anything to be threatened but if nature wants it that way we can not stop it. If it was somthing warm and fuzzy it would be o.k. Whoever wrote that hates lizards or just wants a attention too his article.
lets just hope that everything goes ok. who knows i can be totally incorrect. this is just my opinion.
later.

The monitor lizards are not native, nor did they arrive naturally, unless you think they can make the trip from Africa on their own. It's been documented that the original population was released by people in the pet trade, who wanted to breed monitors in the wild and then capture the babies for sale. This is a common problem here in Florida, and has happened with other species in other locations.

You apparently misunderstand evolution. Ecosystems exist within given geographical boundaries, and the species therein strike a mutual balance over millenia of co-existence. When an "alien species" -- human, or rat, or monitor -- is introduced, it lacks natural checks and balances, causing the entire ecosystem to collapse. Species on the brink -- burrowing owls, for example -- evolve din an environment without large, digging, ground-dwelling predators like monitors, and are likely to be extinguished.

Species generally do not jump ecosystem boundaries on their own -- it takes human stupidity or greed to accomplish that. Forty species of alien reptile have been introduced in Florida, in some cases leading to the extinction of native species. This is not because the native species were somehow inferior -- it is because idiotic people have altered ecosystems in ways that would never occur without human inteference.
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Scott Robert Ladd
1.0.0 Iguana (Rex)
1.1.0 African Giant Plated Lizard (Clyde, Cassie)
1.0.1 Uro mali (Wizard, Dizzy)
0.1.0 Corn Snake (Amber)
0.1.0 Red-Eared Sliders (Emerald)
0.0.1 Musk Turtle (Sausage)
1.1.0 Parakeet (Thor, Zeus)
1.4.0 Homo sapiens (Scott, Maria, Elora, Becky, Tessa)
blog: http://chaoticcoyote.blogspot.com/

" It's been documented that the original population was released by people in the pet trade, who wanted to breed monitors in the wild and then capture the babies for sale. "

This has not been confirmed. It has been mentioned and is one theory. Another theory was the hurricanes that went through could of led to the escape. The real funny thing is that was dismissed. The head biologist working to rid florida of them claims they got loose in 1990. So of course it couldnt of been the massive 1992 hurricane andrew that less them loose. Because he is certain it was no later then 1990? hahaha Dang he is good he can't even be off by two years wow. However this same biologist claims a single “clutch” of 84 eggs has been recorded and females become mature at 4-5 years of age.hahaha

So I wonder how close his estimate of 1,000 niles is?

Another non native species is here because of a spill at the airport. The monk parakeets came in and the box was dropped leaving them to escape.

There are some caimens loose near the airport too which were let go by workers of the airport who felt sorry for them, they thought letting them go in the pond was the right thing to do.

Maybe he will be nice and rid florida of fire ants next, or land snails, or brown anoles, brown basalisks, knight anoles, black pacu, oscars, holly trees, mellaluca trees, and all of the others things that are not supposed to be here.

SRL>It's been documented that the original population was
SRL>released by people in the pet trade, who wanted to breed
SRL>monitors in the wild and then capture the babies for sale.

JPS>This has not been confirmed. It has been mentione
JPS>and is one theory. Another theory was the hurricanes
JPS>that went through could of led to the escape.

I've heard the hurricane theory, too. It's possible, although I have confirmed that breeders have released monitors (and other lizards) into wild. It could well be that there are several sources for the current monitor population.

Stomach content studies have not found significant predation against cats and dogs (or people, for that matter). However, there is very clear evidence that the monitors have attacked the burrowing owls, a very endangered species. And it seems reasonable to me that the monitors pose a threat to endangered birds and turtles in the area, including those on Sanibel island.

JPS>The real funny thing is that was dismissed. The head
JPS>biologist working to rid florida of them claims they
JPS>got loose in 1990.

I suspect *some* people want to eradicate the nile monitors, but certainly not all. I've been in contact with some african herpetologists, and their universal opinion is that nile monitors are only dangerous when injured or provoked. What I find surprising is that the Florida herpetologist seem to completely ignore the body of knowledge found in the monitor's home territory.

I suspect the danger lies somewhere between the extreme opinions of lizard lovers and eradicators. At this time, the greatest problem I see is in unbalancing an already precarious ecosystem. But I intend to spend quite a bit of time in the area, and learn more.

JPS>So I wonder how close his estimate of 1,000 niles is?

It's hard to say how accurate the estimate is; they don;t really say how they came by that number. Was it by calculating carrying load, or by number of sitings, or just guessing?

JPS>Another non native species is here because of a spill
JPS>at the airport. The monk parakeets came in and the box
JPS>was dropped leaving them to escape.

Monk (or quaker) parakeets arrived form several sources, including the airport spill. I know for a fact that a breeder released dozens in Pinellas County some years back, and people often release noisy Quakers.

JPS>Maybe he will be nice and rid florida of fire ants next,
JPS>orr land snails, or brown anoles, brown basalisks, knight
JPS>anoles, black pacu, oscars, holly trees, mellaluca
JPS>trees, and all of the others things that are not supposed
JPS>to be here.

Yes, Florida is one messed up state.

I found an article today about how the Miami green iguanas are eating the alien snails! Given a choice, I prefer iggies over snails...
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Scott Robert Ladd
1.0.0 Iguana (Rex)
1.1.0 African Giant Plated Lizard (Clyde, Cassie)
1.0.1 Uro mali (Wizard, Dizzy)
0.1.0 Corn Snake (Amber)
0.1.0 Red-Eared Sliders (Emerald)
0.0.1 Musk Turtle (Sausage)
1.1.0 Parakeet (Thor, Zeus)
1.4.0 Homo sapiens (Scott, Maria, Elora, Becky, Tessa)
blog: http://chaoticcoyote.blogspot.com/

How many reported injuries occurred from Nile monitor attacks in Florida--no, the U.S.--, in history? Then research how many dog bites/attacks have been reported. When in doubt, check the statistics. Numbers don't lie--people do.

I have inferred from your posts that you have made up your mind on this issue, as it is far more sexy to write about the dangers of Nile monitors, than to effectively diffuse a public hysteria. This is tantamount to outlawing a Crocodile monitor simply because it's total length is eight feet (as they are considering in N.C.).
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If you're in a war, instead of throwing a hand grenade at the enemy, throw one of those small pumpkins. Maybe it'll make everyone think how stupid war is, and while they are thinking, you can throw a real grenade at them. -JH

>How many reported injuries occurred from Nile monitor
>attacks in Florida--no, the U.S.--, in history?
>Then research how many dog bites/attacks have been
>reported. When in doubt, check the statistics. Numbers
>don't lie--people do.

There have been no recorded attacks on people by *any* species of monitor lizard, outside the bizarre and sensation attack by a Komodo dragon on Sharon Stone's stupid husband. Now, Komodos do eat people when given the chance, but a nile monitor is *not* a Komodo dragon.

As for dog bites: In 2001, the CDC determined that 368,245 people were treated in emergency rooms for bog bites. There are currently 65 million dogs in the United States, or one for every five people. According the the CDC, 2% of Americans have been bitten by a dog (I have!)

I've also been bitten by a green iguana. When I found Rex, his tail was badly cut, and he objected to having Neosporin applied; I don't hold it against him (and he's quite nicely healed.) An injured rat snake sank his fangs into the meat of my hand while I doctored the injuries he received from a feral cat. He now lives in our backyard (wild).

In my opinion, feral cats are the greatest "pet" threat to wildlife, killing off many songbirds.

I can find no reliable count for the number of domestic lizards, though recent pet industry surveys guesstimate that 4% of U.S. households have at least one reptile. No one I know of has any statistic on the number of reptile-caused injuries, but it can't be very high (or someone *would* be keeping track of it!)

>>I have inferred from your posts that you have made up
>>your mind on this issue, as it is far more sexy to write
>>about the dangers of Nile monitors, than to effectively
>>diffuse a public hysteria.

Then you infer incorrectly. My current position (which may change as I do more research) suggests that niles are no great threat to people, but they can (and may already have) cause great harm to endangered species. Of course, if humans hadn;t messed up the ecosystem so badly, many endangered species would have larger ranges, and the niles would pose much less of a threat. :Like most stories, this one is not black or white, and there are no simple answers.
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Scott Robert Ladd
1.0.0 Iguana (Rex)
1.1.0 African Giant Plated Lizard (Clyde, Cassie)
1.0.1 Uro mali (Wizard, Dizzy)
0.1.0 Corn Snake (Amber)
0.1.0 Red-Eared Sliders (Emerald)
0.0.1 Musk Turtle (Sausage)
1.1.0 Parakeet (Thor, Zeus)
1.4.0 Homo sapiens (Scott, Maria, Elora, Becky, Tessa)
blog: http://chaoticcoyote.blogspot.com/

In 2003 there were 6 "incidents" involving Komodo Dragons = All in Indonesia on Flores Island.

A few years ago, 1-2 a fellow died in his Denver apartment, and his nile monitors fed on his carcass - as any varanid would do in a situation like that; the nile monitors are still alive and well in a Maine Zoo I believe.

In the 'thousands' of reports I have read on nile monitors in their native Africa - there have only been 3 incidents where people reacted hysterical to their presence - NONE of these persons was attacked in any way by the lizard - the 'hysteria' was caused either by these Africans trying to flee the presence of the lizard or hapharzardly came upon a lizard: 1) a mugger jumped into a drainage ditch and encountered a 5 foot nile monitor, and the people chasing him cornered him between them and the lizard (1996); 2) a boy was holding a nile monitor by the body using the tail as a whip chasing his friends and got knocked out by same tail (1959); 3) A woman saw a nile monitor on her lawn, and went screaming how it was going to eat her (1999).

As for Sharon Stone's husband - it was not his fault = he is not a zookeeper or a biologist but a hollywood mogle = put blame where it belongs: the zoo keeper. NOT the lizard either - it was just doing what it is supposed to do = eat rats.

This Floridian thing is NON-SENSE - and it will continue as long as people have an interest in it. Is there a correlation between the 'biologists' who are currently culling them in the name of 'protection' of Floridian wildlife and the news articles? Personally, I would be more afraid of a boa constrictor than a nile monitor, whether it be 2-3-4-5-6 feet compared to a boa that could swallow larger prey, conceal itself better, and in most cases are ound of siginificant size under peoples' homes digesting the local dog, cat, racoon, etc....and as far I know there are NO authenticated reports of them eating a human either.

mbayless

"Personally, I would be more afraid of a boa constrictor than a nile monitor, whether it be 2-3-4-5-6 feet compared to a boa that could swallow larger prey, conceal itself better, and in most cases are ound of siginificant size under peoples' homes digesting the local dog, cat, racoon, etc..."

thanks. the boa community loves you. what exactly are you basing this statement on??? you claim to know a decent amount about reptiles, then make this statement...

do you work for a newspaper? or for a biologist in florida?? it has to be one of those two...

bc

. what exactly are you basing this statement on??? =

I know a woman down there who discovered a 16 foot boa constrictor under her house, and it had several 'pets' within its belly....and I know of other incidents along these same lines....no, boas are not bad at all - just more secretive -

I am not a newspaper man; I have zoology backround but do not work as a biologist in Florida...
mbayless

If they were intrduced by humans then i do think they should be eliminated. i know about the checks and balances,without them things go extinked. i do knot want anything to go extinked. especially if it was because of human doings. i am all for eliminating them from that area. i just read an article that said they swam there on their own (but with all the false information i shouldnt of believed it). i am sorry if i jumped to comclusions.
I should of "thought" better.

That article is not very clear on this but the niles are said to have swam from cape coral to sanibel. Not from Africa which would then make it mother nature who brought them in.