Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Often times when I order monitors, they come overnight via USPS Express Mail (as well as FedEx and UPS). So, I went to the main USPS in town, and inquired about the shipping of reptiles, specifically lizards. The guy looked it up in his book, and after a few minutes said that they do not ship lizards, or any other reptile for that matter. I politely asked him, "So, the legitimate businesses I deal with are committing a felony each time they ship with you?" He said, "Apparently." I find this hard to believe--in fact, I don't believe it.

So, do any of you know the exact rules? I know UPS ships them, but at the UPS store I was once told they do NOT ship lizards. What's the low-down?
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If you're in a war, instead of throwing a hand grenade at the enemy, throw one of those small pumpkins. Maybe it'll make everyone think how stupid war is, and while they are thinking, you can throw a real grenade at them. -JH

If you look it up in the books all of them have some sort of rule or stipulation when shipping live animals. Some allow this but not that etc.

However one thing most of them have in common is you need to have permission to be able to ship with them. You open an account with them allowing you to ship live animals.

None of them will cover any loss or assume liability for perishable items this would include shipping of live animals. The only thing covered is the time they say it will be delivered. If it is late then you can get the shipping fees returned or waived. If anything happens to the animal you will have to take that up with the seller and not the carrier.

The airlines such as delta dash etc. have different rules. They are also harder to get verified with.

There are other laws and regulations involved to such as the lacey act. etc.

I see--that makes sense (being verified to ship reptiles).

Thanks.
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If you're in a war, instead of throwing a hand grenade at the enemy, throw one of those small pumpkins. Maybe it'll make everyone think how stupid war is, and while they are thinking, you can throw a real grenade at them. -JH

I have had the same problem, but Just today I got a DHL account, they will send you a small animal shipping waiver and then they will ship your lizards. maximum liability is $100, so if you ship expensive stuff the risk is yours, but at least they will ship it and you don't have to do anything illegal.

I hate to say this, but I ordered a baby nile through raysreptilia and missunderstood him when he said he shipped usps, thought he said ups.The poor little thing came in late in a crushed box the delivery lady was swinging the box like a fan. When my wife asked where the package came from she said raysreptilia and she yelled its here and the box is crushed its probably dead. I was irate and yelled a few not so nice things and scared the poor woman half to death ,(but o well)I did explain to her it was not she who I was upset with. Luckily the monitor was ok. I called ray and left a message of coarse he never called back. So I left a message about the condition of the package and said he may want to change his shipping practices but I doubt he will so in short please if you care about the animals you purchase please use a different dealer and make sure they do not use usps.

The only beef I have with them is they do not always get the package overnight. Alot of times it ends up taking 2 days.

It is upto the seller to pack to the best of his ability to ensure the animals are safe in transit. This means using the right type of box with the right type of packing materials. It should be packed to withstand being turned upside down, and even tossed about. They should pack it so if it is late a day or two etc. it will be ok. Sometimes things happen but they should always go into it with 100% thinking of the animals safety.

sometimes not getting there on time is hazerdous for the animal especialy when dealing withhatchlings and neonates

USPS does not ship live reptiles. I know that some post offices are more lenient and some just don't care what is in the box. A lot of people will ship using USPS or another shipper that generally does not ship live animals and they will simply not tell them what is in the box or they will flat out lie and say it is something else. This is irresponsible and stupid. I would rather pay more for a shipper that know what is in the box and how to handle it. No crushed boxes, no box left in the sun on a loading dock or in a cold warehouse, no chance of it taking an extra day or two. I remember a few years ago I got a breeding pair of Brazillian Rainbow Boas. I paid a good chunk of money for them and they showed up a day late. The snake were fine. They came USPS. Because they were late I asked the driver to wait while I open the package to verify that they were alive. He freaked when he saw live snakes in the box and wrote down the seller's address. I got a call from the seller, he was pissed off because he said USPS had fined him and said they would be checking his packages from then on. He wanted me to pay the fine. I told him where on my anatony he could put his lips and we haven't done any more business since. The point is, using the wrong method of shipping is never good, even if it saves a few bucks.

I've had overnight shipments arrive a day late with DHL on two occasions, and I was so angry, I swore them off forever. My point is, I'm sure some people think shipping USPS is fine, others may hate it--depends on your experience with them. There are probably some who deplore FedEx/UPS.
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If you're in a war, instead of throwing a hand grenade at the enemy, throw one of those small pumpkins. Maybe it'll make everyone think how stupid war is, and while they are thinking, you can throw a real grenade at them. -JH

It seems you have problems mixing A with B, and are not sure if there is a C.

USPS, has not allowed the shipping snakes for decades, but has allowed lizards up until a few years ago. They contracted Fedex to do there overnight shipping, and Fedex did not allow live reptiles. They have since stopped using Fedex for overnight. I heard they are shipping lizards again.

In fact, there were certain routes that would still allow live reptiles even when they were using fedex, ones that did not have to be shipped on a fedex plane.

At that time, I switched from using USPS for shipping monitors, the subject of this forum, and started using UPS. UPS, has never been late one is all the time I have used them. USPS, were late with over 1/2 of the overnight shipments. UPS is far more expensive, but very good.

Lastly, all carriers have a liability limit. But all also allow for the purchase of extra insurance. All are only reponsible for getting your package there on time. As they do not check if your shipment was alive to start with, they surely cannot be responsible for it being alive when it gets there. But they are responsible for losing the package to the insured value.

I think you and others surely complicate matters. Most carriers are good at eliminating problems. And if you cannot figure out how to use them or which ones, then they did a good job. If you(potential shippers) cannot figure out, or which one will carry your goods, then most likely you have no idea how to pack your animals safely. A job well done on their part.

Many think their concern for the health of their monitors relates to proper shipping. This is in error, just like it is with keeping monitors. All the care and concern in the world does not relate to good husbandry, or good shipping, in fact, it often gets in the way. In both, experience is key.

Also, you seem to be like so many others who think they are smart. You use one event to judge a carrier on. You most likely do that with your captives as well. In both cases, that does not work. Accidents and exceptions can and do happen. I have been extremely fortunate, No carrier has ever lost a package, and only once did a carrier lose some monitors(died). That event was taken care of and the carrier did indeed pay for the animals lost.

This is over thousands of packages over decades.

Lastly, it is indeed the shippers responsibility to pack the reptiles for any event that will and can occur. Not the carrier.

As a shipper, I have lost sales to people who insisted on shipping in dangerous weather, to cold or to hot. I find that horrifying.

Also horrifying is the thought that you fellas complain for lack of knowledge in shipping. Consider, its only your responsibility to learn how, no one is responsible for teaching you. Its the real world after all, not grade school anymore. All the information is out there and availible for you to ship, you simply have to research. FR

Many places such as the UPS stores, etc say they cant ship live reptiles etc, but if you pick up the UPS rules book you must have an account set up for shipping live animals, but no mamals, birds, etc, yet USPS will ship birds, why? Who knows.
I know this one all to well, a good friend ahs a herp business online, he uses multiple shippers sometimes, we have both argued with a few of their operators many times about their own rules and his "account to ship live reptiles", by the way its in paper, from them an agreement. They state anywhere in the continental US as an overnight delivery.
About shipments getting there late, I had a bearded dragon sent to me in winter from Alabama, the guy had no good insulation to use in the box, he had no heat packs, he sent it in shredded paper, on a bag of rice, the shipment went on a truck by accident even though it was specified "overnight air delivery by 10:30 am on the top, it went right past PA and straight to northern New York. The box was lost in New York in the coldest part of winter, they found it after 5 working days had past as well a 3 day holiday weekend. The box went on an airplane and showed up finally 1.5 weeks or so later.
To my amazement this BD was alive, healthy was dark and cold on top and warm underneath from the rice, tough creature, the temps ranged from 40-24f shows what a healthy reptile can put up with.

Insulation in it, there were others that were lost for less time and were fine.

Well, to butt in here, I recently had the chance to discover the exact guidlines for shipping live reptiles as I ship out geckos and have a full grown Bosc that needs to be shipped to California. At this time I use USPS with no problems. The people at the post office I went to weren't sure. They had the new printing of the books that cover regulations of shipping live animals including reptiles of all stripes. They will not ship snakes... they have reinstated shipping live lizards and amphibians. The man I spoke with made a call into their main office or whatever while I was standing there waiting to ship my gecko. As long as the shipping container cannot be crushed easily they will ship it. Express mail holds a $100 liability if the package arrives late to an area that is expressly covered under the one day service. They may or may not pay for the replacement cost of the animal themselves depending on the circumstances if the animal dies. This was just 2 months ago that I both inquired to make sure and sent out a package of geckos.

Their rulebooks state turtles and snakes are on the prohibitted list.. though they said the one on snakes is debateable because it lists venomous animals and animals over 6 ft from what I was told on the phone by the express mail system operator I spoke with yesterday. The problem they have is the fedex planes for the most part not accepting live stock... and the live reptiles are carried on commercial flights which load people first and their luggage before adding mail if there's room which can make the delivery date late and have shipments laying around on loading platforms waiting for the next commercial flight. This information came to me just yesterday when I spoke with the express mail people...The packaging has to be sturdy and marked "perishable" as well as Live Animal, Fragile, and Handle with Care. In addition the top has to be indicated to keep it upright. Within these guidelines they will ship live reptiles. MANY post offices will tell you no they don't simply for the fact that many of those in the offices are scared of the animal possibly getting away in their care. It has nothing to do with the legalities and all to do with the employees ignorance and not wanting to do the work of looking it up since it is a very labor intensive procedure. The rules for reptiles are not listed under the agricultural rules with things like bird's eggs and chicks but under another headding. It took my post office a bit of time to find the exact passage but they did find it finally.
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Lucien

1.1 Columbian Redtail Boa (BCI)(Sutekh and Isis)
3.5.3 Leopard geckos (2.0 Blizzards (Caine and Goliath), 0.1 Tangerine Albino (Tequila Sunrise ...Tiki for short), 1.0 Rainwater Albino (Mycah), 0.4 Poss. Het. Albino (Annika, Lace, Rain and Aris) and 2.1 dbl. het blizzard x tang albino (Malice, Malfeas, and Mystic))
0.1 Savannah Monitor (Kiros)
13 rats
2 Dogs (Loki and Storm)
3 cats (Ashe, Sahara and Hercules)
6 Fish (4 Red Danios, 1 Cardinal Fish, and 1 Tiger Barb)
8 Ramshorn snails
"And a Partridge in a Pear Tree!"

Get them on the right page, they dont know their own policies, also they dont want to look it up because it takes too much effort to do so.
Most say no snakes, from what I am told Fed Ex with a contact set up to ship live reptiles which requires demonstrating an approved shipping box to them as well insulation etc before the issue the contract takes any reptile other than snakes.
Another shipper that says they do not ship live animals will also tell you that they will with a contract for such a reason, but dont mark the box as such because it just causes conflict with the company and their rules, another that needs to clarify their own rules to employees.
UPS has always been a good one to recieve animals from, they are always on time here, they can be a bit more expensive sometimes.