Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I was just wondering if some one can list all the blood species for me. If you have pics of each species please email them to me. I think i know them all but i just need reasurence.
Borneo Short tail
Sumatran
Sumatran Short tail (Black Blood)
Malaysian Red
Banka
Sarawaks
I also want to know when someone advertises (red bloods) are they refering to Malaysians? and are (Black Bloods) refering to ?Sumatran Shot tails? Please fill me in and corect me if im wrong.

Thanks Everyone

blood speicies: python brongersmai

The species are:

Python brongersmai
Python breitensteini
Python curtus

That's it. Only three species which was formerly one species and three subspecies under Python curtus sp.

What you listed are common names and it should not be confused with species names.

Here is a bit more (don't read if you are going to the blood talk at the Tinley show, else it will be repeated):

P. brongersmai is the only true "blood" and then only around 25% of the brongersmai are really red. The rest are yellow and brown. These are found primarily on the islands of Malaysia, Sumatra and some nearby islands.

P. curtus are not "bloods" but short-tailed pythons. Why not a blood? Same reason as why there are no Borneo "bloods", they don't get red! P. Curtus get black and grey and live mostly in Sumatra.

P. breitensteini are also short-tails and not "bloods". They get orange, dark brown, golden (sarawak locality), some orange-red coloration does appear but with tans and browns. They are only found for the most part on the island of Borneo (Kalimantan). The other two are not found on Borneo and P. breitensteini are not found on Malaysia/Sumatra.

Whew! Hope that helps. If I missed anything or proofed poorly, someone please let me know.

thanks.
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All right then! Thanks for the info Rich. Thats a whole lot more definitive than anything I've come across. Now here a tougher one..Who was/is Brongersmai? The name appears with a bunch of reptile species but I can't find a cite.

Just a real nit-picking point:

Python brongersmai is found in Malaysia, but Malaysia is a peninsula, not an island. If anyone knows how far north they are found, please do tell.

I don't think they are found as far north as reported by Dave Barker ( up to Bangkok) in his old article in the Vivarium.

If I remember correctly, Mr. Barker also mentions that there are a couple of records from Vietnam - in view of the large volume of traffic in this species , both for skin and for meat, I would not be suprised to find that the Vietnam record(s) were due to escapes.

That was my ten cents worth!

Mark Hanger

Mark,
Tweedie lists P. brongersmai as restricted to the Sunda geographical subregion which has as its northern boundry, the Isthmus of Kra on the Malay Peninsula. This point is located about 200 miles south of Bangkok at about 10 degrees north. As you mentioned, I have also heard reports of specimens from southern Vietnam and Cambodia, but never anything definitive or confirmed. In the Keogh, Barker, and Shine paper, it is interesting to note that only a few specimens were listed as being from Thailand, and while all the specimens collected from Malaysia and Sumatra had exact locality data, the Thailand specimens had no locality data. It would be interesting to know how those specimens were obtained.

Kelly

Kelly,

Thanks for that information.What is the source, please? (Tweedy)?
I have a copy of the other paper you mention.

Thanks
Mark

Mark,
The source reference is The Snakes of Malaya by M.W.F. Tweedie, 1983. It's a pretty good book and goes into some detail on herpetofauna distribution across southeast Asia and Indonesia. Thanks,

Kelly

n/p

Thanks. I had the same question. Aren't we dealing with subspecies here? Is the nominate form Python curtus curtus and P. curtus breitenstein and P. curtus brongersmai locality-specific subspecies?

Funny you should ask...I happened to be reading the paper that changed the status and elevate each of the three to separate species. Here is the citation:

Ecological divergence among sympatric colour morphs in blood pythons, Python brongersmai.

Richard Shine, Ambariyanto, Peter S. Harlow, Mumpuni Oecologia (1998)Volume 116, No 1-2(August), 113-119.

Another good reference is:

Heavily exploited but poorly known: systematics and biogeography of commercially harvested pythons (Python curtus group) in Southeast Asia

J. Scott Keogh, David G. Barker, Richard Shine (2001)

As far as Brongersmai, this was in honor of Dr. Brongersma by Stull 1938.
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Support your local herp society
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If I were able to get to the Tinley Park show, I'd be in the front row...taking notes. Many thanks Rich!

I have read somewhere or other that Python breitensteini is named after a German military doctor who was stationed in Borneo in the 1930's ( if I remember correctly).
I think it was in one of Rick Shine's papers (Heavily exploited but poorly known)
Just off the top of my head!

Mark Hanger

Mark & Rich:
Thanks to the both of you for sharing your knowledge of species taxonomy, range and distribution. I admire new morphs as much as anyone, but defining and preserving locality-specific type is probably even more important for me. In any event, the P.curtus group is rich in both natural beauty and selective breeding potential. Pretty amazing to this neophyte.
Bill

Not to nitpick, but there is no p.curtus group anymore. They are all serperate species now.
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Sam Craver
Cage Crafters and The Blood Bank

Right. I meant to say "that group of snakes formerly known collectively as the P. curtus group"