Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Ok I made a new post as the first one has moved down the forum and likely not to be read and these replies are important to me, Here is the whole 9 yards to help with future replies. I work at a place that has a very high and abnormal population of Western Rattle Snakes, When these snakes are encountered at work they are killed end of story, it is the companies policy to kill any and all rattle snakes no matter where they are encountered, Because of this an associate and I have begun a covert mission to collect any rattle snakes that are at risk and one of us will take it after work and release it into suitable habitat on the way home, Word has begun to spread and now I have been offered an hourly wage by a realistate agent to go out to property’s and do the same thing. Its very hard to turn this down because hey today money is everything and also theses snake would otherwise be killed should I not go remove them, I have informed this person that they will all me release within 1 half mile of the collection point and he says that’s fine as long as they are taken off the property. So my question in short is the same, what to do? Thanks a million for all the help thus far.

A few things. I certainly commend your efforts to try and rescue these snakes. Too bad more folks aren't willing to live and let live. Anyways, on to your issues...

You say it's a "very high and abnormal population of western rattlesnakes." I'm curious as to what you mean by this. And by western rattlesnake...do you mean Crotalus viridis or Crotalus atrox (western diamondback rattlesnake)? I'm not 100% sure about atrox, but viridis (at least adult males) can and do have rather extensive active ranges.

What I'm getting at is this. Chances are good that those snakes are going to be right back where you initially captured them within a relatively brief of time. A study assessing the efficacy of "snake fences" for keeping out timber rattlesnakes in a new housing development found that these timbers showed some degree of "site fidelity," meaning a horridus that circumvented the fence and was captured within the development was likely to be a repeat offender. Below you'll find the abstratct/authors from this talk (given at the Joint Meetings of Ichthyology and Herpetology this past summer).

I'm sure you've also been informed that relocations often result in high mortality. So it's almost a lose/lose situation. Move them too far, they may die. Move them close by, they'll be back and, with people the way they are, the snakes may die. Regardless, if you're being offered to be paid an hourly wage to remove snakes from yards and recolate them within 1/2 of a mile, you'll defintely remain in business as the snakes will likely return. So it's a good gig if you can get it!

Here is the snake fence info:

*BREISCH, ALVIN R.; TEAR, TIMOTHY H.; STECHERT, RANDY
(ARB) New York State Department of Environmental Conservation, Division of Fish, Wildlife and Marine Resources, 625 Broadway, Albany, NY 12233, USA; (THT) The Nature Conservancy – Eastern New York Chapter, 200 Broadway, Suite 301, Troy, NY 12218, USA; (RS) 50 School St., Narrowsburg, NY 12764, USA

Rattlesnake exclusion fences: Do they really work?

The conflict between humans and timber rattlesnakes (Crotalus horridus) has increased as residential and commercial developments have extended into more remote areas. The
construction of exclusion fences has been proposed as a solution to minimize human/rattlesnake interactions. We report on a three-year study in New York that illuminates many of the problems with this approach. Based on the recommendations of an extensive threeyear pilot study, an exclusion fence was completed in 2000. The fence was positioned to minimize the possibility that rattlesnakes would move down slope into the subdivision area
after emerging from their den. The 1.2 m high fence, constructed with 1.3 cm hardware cloth buried in the ground and supported by metal rods, extended along the slope for approximately 2400 m. Between 2001-2003, six timber rattlesnakes were tracked using implanted radio transmitters. In spite of the fence blocking direct access, by the end of 2002 all six rattlesnakes had entered the subdivision. Five of the radio-tagged snakes returned to the subdivision in 2003. Each was relocated to a pre-selected area up slope from the fence. Sixteen translocations were performed on five snakes, four of which returned to the subdivision on one or more occasions. Although difficult to confirm, based on movement patterns, snakes appeared to
move through the fence on many occasions, as well as around both ends of the fence. Breaches in the integrity of the fence appeared to be a function of inadequate design, poor installation
and lack of sufficient maintenance. In addition, fourteen other rattlesnakes were also found within the subdivision and two rattlesnakes were found dead in the subdivision area during
this study, possibly killed by humans. We conclude that the fence did not achieve the objective of minimizing human/snake conflicts and that exclusion fences have limited value for rattlesnake conservation.
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I am refering to Crotalus viridis. What I meant by the high numbers is I have been field collecting and activly maintaining manny local species for 13 years now and never in my life have I been able to observe so manny of this species in one relitivly small area. The business dose not help at all by leting broken up concreat stack up on the back of the property witch aparently gives Crotalus viridis an ideal habitat, Would toy recomend me move them more than a half mile, This is a realy hard deal I mean the snakes must go eather way you look at it. Should they stay they will be killed. The employer has in the past killed them with a BB gun witch more than likly was a long painfull death. I dont feel bad about doing this as at least there is a chance they will survive, While that chance may be a small one there is still a better chance than leting them hang around and get shot at with BB guns. No matter how manny times I tell myself that this is there land and they should be left I must keep reminding myself I am in a fast growning area and I myself will not stop the encrochment of this land. I realy would like to relocate them to a place I know of where human encrochment is never likly to occur as its a national forest but that would mean relocating them about 60 miles wich I am sure is not recomended.

OMG I went out to the property today and it was like standing in a 40 acer snake pit. I have never observed so manny, such big, so mad rattles snakes in one spot in my life, I located several dens and counted at least 30 active rattle snakes roaming the property, this is in adition to the ones that were found in the posable den sites. There was one point I was surounded by rattles going crazy and it was then I deturmined reinforcments were necisary. They come right up to your feet and look at your boots. truly gutsy snakes. I am now waiting to hear back from an associate. This is the first tiem in my life i have had to bring somone ells in only for the purpose to watch my back while snake hunting, Literaly wile you are looking at one a few more will move right ub behind you and start rattling, I have found the Rattle Snake supper high way LOL. I would be lieing if I said the thought didnt cross my mind that "THIS IS STUPID BEING OUT HERE SUROUNDED BY THESE ALONE" lol Well at least I had the brains to get the hell out of there and wait for a companion before I go back. Luckily the person wanting to pay for this is in agreeance with me in that I need somone ells there.

you have been offered a job that lets you work with snakes..... you get paid to go herping... i know i would take it lol. kudos on the efforts at work.
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"who knows". Edgar ~ Skepticism Inc.

The only problem is I am going to have to bring someone ells in to watch my back so I will loose money. I finished a snake trap I designed late last night and plan on setting it this coming Friday for its trial run. Hopefully it will work. I am still amazed at the aggression, size and sheer numbers of the rattle snake population on this property. I was told there was a snake problem but the problem is much bigger than I once thought.

Just out of curiousity...what state is this in?

The state is California. I have heard there are relocation permit that are required with is why I ask about there home range so I avoid moving them from there home range. I normally more than likely would have past this up but I was informed all snakes that are found will be killed if not out by next summer and was given the chance to remove them alive and be paid for it on top of that.

i live in the cirtus heights area of california. where is this place located? ive had rotten luck with finding rattlers this season. a friend of mine wants a male oreganus for her girl, and i really want to catch a few myself.. lol.
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"who knows". Edgar ~ Skepticism Inc.

The place is located about 45 minutes from you in Amador County. I realy cant let anyone ells go with me as myself and the help I am bringing are the only onse consented to the proerty, However I may be able to save you a male or any other ones you want and you can come to my place and pick wthem up. I will be going back there on Tuesday morning and expect to make a godo dent in the job so let me klnow before then,