Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I was reading some posts and people were saying not to keep leos on sand. Is this just standard back yard sand? I keep mine on vita-sand or calci sand. They often eat it, and I have never had an impaction problem. Everyone's healthy, and the females lay like crazy without any calcium deffinciencies. The sand seems to help keep vitaman levels up. The sand also warms a little bit, giving them a nice way to heat their bellies. Plus its easy to clean and it looks nicer than paper towels.
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Corn Snakes: Eden, Mars, Sierra, Lavendar, The Tweedle Twins
Crested Geckos: Parker, Emily Dickinson, Bonnie, Unnamed 1 & unnamed 2, Cali
Leopard Geckos: Paris, Helen, Annabelle, Artemis
Bearded Dragon: Humphrey
Jambea Dwarf Retic

Sand causes impaction which can kill your gecko without any warnings. Reg play sand is actually alot better to use than calci or vita sand. Calcium when wet clumps up, imagine what that does to a gecko's inside say if that happened in their stomach. There would be no way to un clump it and then the gecko wouldn't be able to poop, eat and would eventually die. It's not a myth, it's a very serious condition that has killed alot of geckos. Here's a site where a guy experimented with what the sand does when it gets ingested.

http://www.pythons.com/calcium.html

It would be better to switch to tile or paper towels and just make sure the geckos are given enough calcium.

Don't you think it's better to have healthy geckos than a "nice looking" tank.....even though you haven't had any problems yet, I wouldn't take chances.
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Katie F.
Peach State Geckos
Breeding Mealworms
My Email
AIM SN: PeachyGex

"A herper's life is never dull" - ME

Unless you have had your leos on sand for a couple years, there could still be a problem with becoming impacted. It can take time for that to happen. Just because they look alright now, does not mean that there isn't a developing problem.

The oldest ones have been on sand as long as I've had them, which is about a year and a half without a single problem. I even know someone who'd put calci sand in a dish for her females to eat after egg laying. She also never had a problem, and has very viral girls.

I've always kept my corn snakes on sand too, the oldest one being for about 5 years. Also never had a problem with them.

I understand the science of it, but if anyone has actaully had this happen to them, I'd like to know. All the facts in the world are useless without evidence. I don't doubt its possible, but because of my positive experience, I'd like to hear a negative one before deciding it so deadly for them.

I wanted to point out that healthy geckos is obviously more important than a nice tank, which is why I wrote that after explaining all the actaul reasons I kept them on sand. So I think that was kind of a needless low blow.
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Corn Snakes: Eden, Mars, Sierra, Lavendar, The Tweedle Twins
Crested Geckos: Parker, Emily Dickinson, Bonnie, Unnamed 1 & unnamed 2, Cali
Leopard Geckos: Paris, Helen, Annabelle, Artemis
Bearded Dragon: Humphrey
Jambea Dwarf Retic

When i started keeping leopard geckos i did my research prior to buying them! Every site i read stated that sand or calci-sand was very bad due to it's nature of causing possible impaction. Now seeing as you think you have had a good experience with calci-sand your questioning for proof! There has been tons of proof, how ridiculous! The best thing you can do if you love your reptiles is listen and take them off it and use either tile or paper towels. Then at least your rep won't drop down dead when it's too late and you think "damn wish i listened!" Too many people let it happen thinking it's alright then lose there loved reptile. Just take into consideration you are killing your pet!

Click here to go to Gilbery's Gecko's!

Why are you being so judgemental? I have very healthy geckos, and have done tons of research and prior to a single comment on a forum, I didn't hear a thing about sand being bad. Asking for proof is not a bad thing!

Asking for information is NOT a bad thing!

I would appreciate it if you respond to a post with some useful information instead of calling me ridiculous and providing absolutely no benefit. I put more care into my animals than I do into my self, and I find your accusations pretty lame.
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Corn Snakes: Eden, Mars, Sierra, Lavendar, The Tweedle Twins
Crested Geckos: Parker, Emily Dickinson, Bonnie, Unnamed 1 & unnamed 2, Cali
Leopard Geckos: Paris, Helen, Annabelle, Artemis
Bearded Dragon: Humphrey
Jambea Dwarf Retic

ive had my leo on "desert sand" for almost a year now w/o any problems. i also leave a bottle cap with calcium powder, and i feed him in a seperate container. 5 gal. bucket lined with carpet to prevent him from accidental ingestion. i watch him pretty carefully and have yet to see him eat the sand... although i am going to switch to tile when i get him a mate...

Alright, here are my 2 cents about sand and sand impaction. I think it depends on how well you take care of your herps. I know I'll get flak for this but here I go:

About 4 years ago, I had 2 adult leos and 2 adult uromastyx in separate cages. I had a mixture of Desert sand and playsand for both of them. Everything was fine for 3 years:temps were optimal, eating great on a daily basis with greens for the uros and powdered crix and mealies for the leos. Humidity was good too. Then I had a problem.

My son was born after three years of keeping my herps in this way. the last year, I kind of stopped giving my animals the care they needed. instead of daily feedings, I did 3 to 4 times a week feedings. Sometimes, I forgot to give them water but it never passed 2 days. The leos humid hides were sometimes not humid either. six months after my son was born, I noticed my female leo getting fat around her waist. I thought they were eggs since the other one was a male and I thought I saw them from her underside. I waited for her to drop them but to no avail. All she kept doing was losing weight from her tail. After 4 weeks, I found her dead one morning. I dissected her since I wanted to at least see the eggs. NO EGGS. Her intestines were filled with sand! 4 months earlier, my smaller female uro was found dead on morning as well. I didn't dissect her but I did put 2 and 2 together. I feel that the leos felt they were malnourished and tried to get the calcium they needed from the sand. TOO MUCH OF IT.

3 years of good husbandry on sand = no ill effects. 8 months of bad husbandry = 2 dead lizards. This is my story, my facts.

Sorry for the long post.

If sand is going to be used, only fine grain washed play sand should be used.

Calcium sand is made of large jagged piecies which clump together into a solid ball when wet. This is what they will do to your leos.

I have never had a leo die from calci-sand impaction, but i have never kept them on it. I do know people who have lost their leos, and necropsy results yeilded calcium sand impaction.

Impaction can take years and years to build up. Dont risk it.

I guess it comes down to this...Calci-sand CAN cause impactions, that is a fact. Do all leos housed on calci-sand die from it? No, definately not. But to me, why take the risk? We spend so much time and effort providing our leos with proper nutriton, good husbandry, temps etc...why jepordize the health of your animals over a sand? Doesnt add up to me....

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0.1 Bearded dragon (Hannabil)
0.1 mexican Black kingsnake (Morticia)
2.1 Leopard Gecko's (Pogo,Jeffrey Nothing, Louise)
0.0.1 Tokay Gecko
1.0 Blue Tongue Skink
0.0.1 Reverse Okeetee Corn (Autumn)
1.0 Blood Red Corn (Virus)
0.1 Bullmastiff (Asha)
4.1 Cats (Poe, Tucker, Abhid, Felicity, Emmy)

I take the same precautions as above
feed in seperate container, maintain adequate calcium in a seperate dish, plenty of water, occasional stomach checks, good records on animals, etc. Have yet to have any impactions, and 4 females have survived well my last breeding season. They live on a dirt/sand mixture.
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1.0 Hypo stripe, Het Rainwater from JL (BJ)
1.0 HypoTang from Crested (Apricot)
1.0 Tremper Albino (Cloud)
0.2 Hi-Yellow Leopard gecko (Beatrice, Pepper (het stripe))
0.1 Normal (Freckles)
0.1 SHCT Leopard Gecko (Brite)
0.1 Tangy Mutt Leopard Gecko (Rainbow)
0.1 Tremper Albino (Leucy)
RIP Peaches, Ghost, Bill
Hatched: ~25

I've read a few of the other posts, most of which are very agains sand. When this topic came up on a veterinary only forum on another site, there was a barage of X-ray photos showing the tonnes of animals that are ill from impaction. Certain materials are definately more prone to clumping than others, but all particulate matter is a risk. Impaction is definately a very real concern.

Now the flip side is that naturalistic vivarium are also very beneficial to leopard gecko's, and herps in general. Not necessary, but beneficial. All in all, in a top notch husbandry setup, and with healthy, adult geckos, impactions are much less common. Ill, dehydrated, parasitized, are other (even slightly) compromised individuals will not be working 100% efficiently and increasing the odds of impaction.

Whether you are a fan of the boy in the bubble syndrome for your gecko's or not, it's all good. Just make sure your setup is well researched, and that the research never ends. I use a sandy, dirt, gravel mix that resembles the dry scrubland that they are native too. Most of it is dry/ packed hard with a minimal loose top layer. I acknowledge that the risk of impaction is present. The number one symptom of blockage is anorexia, but may also include a painfull or distended abdomen, weight loss, vomiting/regurgitation, lack of stool ect. If your gecko does get blocked, it will die shortly if you are not prepared to spend a good amount of money on a surgury. If this is the case, still take it to the veterinarian for a humane euthanasia.

Well, I think I"ve presented both sides of the sand arguement and if I recieve some heat for it, well, so be it

Ian

ps "top notch husbandry" as mentioned is not a 10gallon with calci-sand with a warm and cool end. Detail, detail, detail is all I have to say on that

I am against sand but I like your arguement and agree that sometimes sand is okay as long as you give extra care. You gave both sides of the spectrum...which I think people after hearing an arguement like this should weigh the pros and cos and decide what they would rather do. It really depends on how much time you'll be able to give the gecko and what matters to you more, a nice "natural looking" cage or a healthy gecko.
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Katie F.
Peach State Geckos
Breeding Mealworms
My Email
AIM SN: PeachyGex

"A herper's life is never dull" - ME