Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi folks,

I have long wondered why no one has crossed a bredli or centralian carpet with any of the other geographic subspecies. I have seen everything else crossed with everything, jungles/diamonds, jungle/IJs, Coastal/IJs , Coastal/diamond/jungles, ect... Is there any reason or is it just to keep them a pure strain? Are they difficult breeders??
I was just curious because I have never seen a bredli crossed with any other carpet.

Does anyone have anything to say about that one???

Thanks for your time,

Joe

2.7 Phelsuma grandis
2.2.7 Phelsuma klemmeri
1.1 IJ carpets
1.0 axanthic coastal carpet???
0.1 jungle carpet

Funny you should ask...I was at NERD the other day and learned that they had just hatched out some bredl/dxj carpets...they're only a week or so old right now...I hope to actually get a look at them next time I'm there. I'm sure they'll have some for sale in the near future.
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JOHN H in NH

Yeah, I have noticed they are into hybrids/intergrades. They have "carpondros" posted on kingsnake.com. I would definately like to see how those bredli crosses look at a year or two old!

Check out my message posting in the "carpet python" specific forum, regarding my possibly axanthic coastal and let me know what you think.

Thanks for your time,

Joe

Hmm hard to say...Very nice though!!
Good luck with your breeding efforts!! John
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JOHN H in NH

Well, carpondros are mules, they cannot breed between each other and have fertile eggs. Breeding back to a parent may produce viable young. As to why no one has done a Bredl cross....what would be the purpose? Just to say it worked? Sometimes it's nice just to have a pure strain of something. I know some are "pretty" (and some are not), but it tends to blur species and subspecies. Remember the Burmese/Indian crosses years ago? Same with Pimbura. Any Indians left outside of their native territory that are pure Indians? Possibly not.

Carpondros are mules? How have you come to that conclusion?
Every other squamate cross has proven to be fertile, and sometimes more fertile than ever. Sure a few crosses have shown to be problematic but then again pure forms have those same issues from time to time as well. Your opinion seems to be shared by many, especially those who have no interest or even hate for hybrids. And this opinion is based on very little considering how little has been done in the way of breeding hybrid Morelia. Other python hybrids have shown to be fertile, what makes Morelia hybrids any different?

-Yasser

SR

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Well, you could use humans as an apt analogy. There is no reason why two people of different geographic origins (races) can't mate and have kids. In fact the offspring of mammals (including humans) have been shown to be healthier and more attractive to the opposite sex if they are of mixed blood. This concept is known as "hybrid vigor" although in snake terms you would call it "intergrade vigor" because its the same species, only different geographic variations. The opposite is true if you don't mix the genes... in other words, have a child with a member of your immediate family and kid may not have desirable characteristics (inbred).

Breeding the different subspecies of carpets together is like breeding black and white people together. Biologically, its sound, if not better for the animal's health. Its up to you if you prefer to marry outside your race or keep your kids "pure" Italian or whatever. In SNAKES, my opinion is that the pure strains are better looking and more desireable. In humans I like a mix

Now, a "carpondro" would be the equivilant to a chimpanzee and human having a child together. Its a curious thing, thats for sure. Its purely opinion as to whether its a good idea or not.

Thats my 2 cents. I didn't know this would turn philosophical

Best,

Joe

I should correct myself by saying that, a "carpondro" is not the snake equivilant to a chimp-human cross. A more appropriate comparison would be a human crossed with one of our extinct relatives such as Homo erectus. Chimps and humans are not in the same genus and are not related in the way that carpets and chondros are.

Thanks,

Joe

There are pics on the first page of the python photo section (kingsnake.com) of a "jungle-centralian.

NERD has just crossed a Bredl with a dxj...why? In addition to their own curiosity about what can and can't be done there is also the fact that there are people willing to pay a premium for something "different". As long is there is demand there will be people willing to breed them. I personally don't have a problem with this so long as the animals are honestly and accurately represented. I do agree that it is important for breeders to maintain and breed pure animals as well...I say to each his own...
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JOHN H in NH

"Carpondros are mules? How have you come to that conclusion?"
Every one I've seen has produced slugs. Not a single viable egg. I've personally witnessed 6 pair lay eggs, and all were slugs from breeding sized adults. If you have different evidence to support the fact that they are fertile, I'd welcome it. Although the analogy is good in regards to prehistoric man, the term "mule" is better. Donkeys and horses produce mules, which are infertile Equines. I'm reasonably sure that a carpondo will reproduce with it's parent. If carpondros were fertile w/each other, Kevin at NERD would have crossed them

I learned in evolutionary biology class that two animals are the same species if and only if they can breed and then produce FERTILE offspring. If carpets and green trees can produce fertile young, then by definition they would be the same "species". Look it up.

I have no idea whether they do produce fertile babies or not, however I do know that if they can, you must re-name the green tree python to Morelia spilota ...

Can anyone prove to me that a carpondro or bateater or ball/angolan or any cross-species hybrid of any animal is fertile??? Has anyone out there successfully bred a hybrid with another or normal to produce fertile young??? I'm talking first-hand, not " I know someone that...).

I have never seen one, so like ghosts, bigfoot, ect.. I wont believe its true till someone can prove it to me.

I think their cool as hell, but only for pets, display or whatever, and should not be sold as breeders.

Corn X King-fertile
corn X Milk-fertile
Corn X pituophis-fertile
King X pituophis-fertile
Ball X Angolan-fertile
Retic X Burm-fertile

There are more I am sure but I won't go into semantics.

Jaykis, if you truly have firsthand knowledge of 6 pairs of Carpondros laying eggs of any kind, I know alot of folks who'd love to hear the details, including myself, considering this is info few people can ever truly attest to. Here's your forum.
Also, I'd love to hear what Kevin at NERD has to say about his experiences with Carpondros.

Thanks for keeping this discussion calm.

-Yasser

SR

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I, at one time, thought a bredli mix would be cool but I was asked by a friend to what purpose and to what end would that be? What color or pattern would you be tiring to achieve? I think it would just muddy up the coloring. On one of my searches I came across one and wasn’t impressed enough to note where I saw it. The only combo I could see being cool with a bredli would be a Jag; reduced pattern and very red.

Just my opinion.

P.S.: I do like some of the other hybrids! Oh, and why is their a lack of discussion on bredli in this area? I never see any cool pictures

A Jaguar pattern on a bredli would result in the reduction of the dark elements, i.e. the red. I'd imagine that the result would be less attractive than either parent but, if we wait a little while, we'll find out for sure. It can't be long before someone tries it.

G

Ya….That’s true. I was just thinking about the reduced pattern and NOT the cause of the reduction.

Who knows, first generation mite yield pink! We can call them Barbie Carpets! Just kidding

There are worse names out there.

G

This is my '05 Cheynei-bredli intergrade...
Just a mistake cleaning the cages...bredli male bred with jungle female...

Enrico

This is my '05 Cheynei-bredli intergrade...
Just a mistake cleaning the cages...bredli male bred with jungle female...

Enrico

some more recent pics

Yeah! Thats what I wanted to see!

Thanks for satisfying my curiosity.

-Joe

"Jaykis, if you truly have firsthand knowledge of 6 pairs of Carpondros laying eggs of any kind, I know alot of folks who'd love to hear the details, including myself, considering this is info few people can ever truly attest to. Here's your forum."
Ok, Yasser...here it is. The first time it was at the Baltimore Zoo (Reptile house now gone), and the same (I believe) group of 5.6 (all over 6') animals mated and produced 6 sets of slugs while on loan to Larry Kenton at Md. Reptile Farm. The last Reptile Curator at the Zoo there (and I forget Vicky's last name), and I were discussing them at the M.A.R.S show last month. She agreed that they are mules, and that NO ONE has bred Carpondro's together and produced any fertile young. If I am wrong, and it has occurred, I stand corrected. By now, that should have happened, either here or abroad. It would have been trumpeted quite loudly by now. My personal belief is that they would be fertile w/a parent, but I haven't seen that yet, either. I don't know the current whereabouts of that group of 11 animals, but I believe they are in the possesion of the former Curator of the Reptile House in Balto. And other questions, let me know. And yes, it's nice to keep the conversation civil

A bit of clarification after speaking to Larry Kenton about the animals. There were 6.7 animals, each female bred with one male, one male doing double duty. This all occured last winter. All eggs incubated as normal with the rest of his pythons of assorted species, carpets included. He is an experienced long-time breeder. I saw not only the animals, but the eggs. All turned dark and did not go anywhere near full-term. For those interested, he believes the father was a Chondro, mother was a Jungle Carpet. Evidently they produced eggs twice before, but he was not informed of that until he bred them.