Reptile & Amphibian Forums

This is from my personal experiance...This is not meant to be 100% fact in all situations for all animals.

A couple posts below somebody said that handling a snake has no effect on it's temperment...and in my experiance, it's not true a lot of the time.

I have a Biak that will not be handled. If I need to get him out of his cage to move him, clean his perches, ect, I have to restrain him...there's no way around it. It's nearly impossible to unperch a chondro with a snake hook without hurting them. I have an Aru that I can handle whenever I want with no problems. And then I have snakes who will strike and bite me when I reach for them, but once I pick them up are fine.

This is where you figure out whats really happening. If an animal just doesn't care about being handled, chances are it's going to take abuse or years of only getting attention at feeding time to make the animal aggressive. If an animal strikes when you reach, but is calm and seems to enjoy being handled, 99% of the time with regular handling that initial strike response will go away as they get used to you picking them up. If you have a snake that lets you pick it up, and after 5 min of handling decides to bite you, hard (like my biak), chances are that's a snake that will always be unhandleable. And yes, an animal that was never handled on a regular basis can get overly aggressive because of that. Try picking up a grey or texas rat that's 3-5 yrs old that's never been worked with, compared to one that was handled it's whole life.

Again, this is just what I've seen working with my animals and a few other peoples. I just think saying "if you handle it it'll stop biting" or "if you let it grow up it won't bite you" just doesn't cut it, cause it's not always that way. And personally, I'd rather find out when the snake is smaller if it's gonna handle it.

Chris
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1.1.0 Irian x Jungle Carpet Pythons
1.2.0 Black Rats- Robert, Cady, Kylie
1.2.0 Albino FL Kings-Nick, Jessica, Ashley
1.1.0 Crimson Corns-Kane, Ruby
0.1.0 Het-Crimson Corns-Lola
0.1.0 White-Sided/Pos Het Albino Black Rat-Lita
1.0.0 Albino White-sided Black Rat-Rey
0.1.0 Albino/Het White-sided Black Rat-Stacey
1.2.0 Creamsicle Corns-Vince, Trish, Torrie
0.1.0 Fl King-Bonnie
1.0.1 Green Tree Pythons Biak-Brandon, Aru-Orochimaru
1.0.0 Flame X Blood Bearded-Ruff
2.4.0 Ball Pythons-Kritsy, Gretchen, Alexis, 100% het for albino balls- Naruto, Hinata, 66% het VPI Axanthic-Sasuke
0.1.0 Red-tail Boa-Xena
0.0.1 Savannah Monitor-Izzy

ok well lets just say that some snakes can be held and some can't...
everyone does things different and has different cages... those two factors alone make a huge difference... in my opinion its all about the way the snake is approched...

i dont have nor have i ever used a snake hook, but i can see how one could be used without harming the snake... for example... if i have a snake that does not want to get out of a cage i simply tickle his tail and he gets off the perch.. with a snake hook all you have to do is tickle the tail and let him climb on the hook.... i doubt anyone it twirling the snake up like spaghetti to get it off...

Shiloh
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Shiloh Hawkesworth
kansas
(Midwest Serpents)

That made me laugh Shiloh!! I could just see the spoon and fork technique! That being said, I've heard that most neonates are pretty snappy, but even if not handled for a year, they do calm down if they are going to. I don't think my girl was handled much as a neonate, yet she is dog tame...and I mean tame! I even had to help her shed at 10:00 at night while she crawled around her viv and she did nothing more than snif my fingers and let me help her. I wouldn't do that normally, as she's usually in hunting position ready to kill whatever comes her way!
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1.0~amel corn~C.S.
1.3~Aztec Okeetee corns~Coatl,Maya,Acatl,Tepin
0.1.1~Green tree python~Tempest, Whisper
0.2~Rhodesian Ridgebacks~Akilah, Ona
1.0~Black fat cat~Topper
3.0~Horses~Zaarah,Galliano,Achilles.....

Everyone is different, every snake is different. In my opinion, I don't think saying that after time every snake will calm down, but it's possible for some. I'm sure we all know how tame ball pythons are, my last ball python I couldn't walk by her cage without her striking at her cage trying to get me. Day, night...didn't matter. I had her since she hatched and up until 1 1/2 years with no progress no matter what I did. On the other hand, I bought a year old boa that was never paid attention to and with barely any work, he's tame a kitten. I think there are a lot of factors in knowing if you can work with a certain animal to "make" them tame down. With my GTP now, I believe I'm making progress, but in reality, he'd probably become a tame snake anyway, I just like to think I have a little something to do with it. It's like trying to work with a fighter pit bull, it's possible to calm him down just a little, but make the wrong move and you'll more than likely take a bite. Just my two cents.

on the snake hook subject. I don't really think I'm hurting my snake any but using a hook. let's see if I can explain this.... I use the hook to get under his belly and gently lift up a little, but I don't put the hook around his body, just kind of nudge him a little. By his reaction to that I can usually tell if he's going to be pissy about me reaching into his cage to get him or clean or whatever. In no way would use the hook to actually pull him off his perch, I just use it to give me fair warning if he doesn't want to bothered. I have the entire hook coated in that liquid rubber stuff so just in case he did strike at it, it wouldn't be teeth to metal. I might be doing a lot wrong in someone's eyes, but it seems to be working for me.

I understand what you're all saying and it kinda goes along with the point I was trying to make, and probably failed at...and that's every snake is different. You can't make a blanket statement on the best ways to be able to handle one. Every snake has to be treated like you've never handled one before, because you really don't know what will work or how the snake will react.

Chris
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1.1.0 Irian x Jungle Carpet Pythons
1.2.0 Black Rats- Robert, Cady, Kylie
1.2.0 Albino FL Kings-Nick, Jessica, Ashley
1.1.0 Crimson Corns-Kane, Ruby
0.1.0 Het-Crimson Corns-Lola
0.1.0 White-Sided/Pos Het Albino Black Rat-Lita
1.0.0 Albino White-sided Black Rat-Rey
0.1.0 Albino/Het White-sided Black Rat-Stacey
1.2.0 Creamsicle Corns-Vince, Trish, Torrie
0.1.0 Fl King-Bonnie
1.0.1 Green Tree Pythons Biak-Brandon, Aru-Orochimaru
1.0.0 Flame X Blood Bearded-Ruff
2.4.0 Ball Pythons-Kritsy, Gretchen, Alexis, 100% het for albino balls- Naruto, Hinata, 66% het VPI Axanthic-Sasuke
0.1.0 Red-tail Boa-Xena
0.0.1 Savannah Monitor-Izzy

Removeable perches anyone?

As a matter of fact....yes! Especially for the baby.
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1.0~amel corn~C.S.
1.3~Aztec Okeetee corns~Coatl,Maya,Acatl,Tepin
0.1.1~Green tree python~Tempest, Whisper
0.2~Rhodesian Ridgebacks~Akilah, Ona
1.0~Black fat cat~Topper
3.0~Horses~Zaarah,Galliano,Achilles.....

"Removeable perches anyone?"

what do you mean??? you mean like perches that are removable??? WOW, thats a great idea...
LOL....

i have removable in every cage i have and i dont see how anyone coudl do without them... these snake are was to stubburn...

Shiloh
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Shiloh Hawkesworth
kansas
(Midwest Serpents)

removable perches yes.i say save the hooks for the venomous and save the taming for the dogs.yes even a killer pitbull and even a lion can be tamed because they are mammals and have a brain capable of emotion,logic,learning from mistakes and past experiences.i say if reptiles have any of these(i seriously doubt)they are in such small amounts its almost not worth mentioning.id say the best a reptile can do is imprint.this is almost 100 percent involved with food and has nothing to do with bonding with an owner.the mice we feed our snakes are thousands of times smarter and more capable of taming than our snakes themselves.youre almost as likly to tame a cricket as you are to tame a snake.id love to say this is only my opinion,but its not.its an opinion shared by the entire scientific community.hold your snakes as often as you like.just dont expect them to end up any tamer or wilder then they would have become if you just let nature take its course.

with all that has been said i think its important to remember that the more you hold your snake the less stress it will cause, because in most cases he will get used to it... this is more true with the snakes that you can actually hold...
but the less stress on the snake the better...

Shiloh
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Shiloh Hawkesworth
kansas
(Midwest Serpents)

EXACTLY! It's also important to remember that to atleast some of us, these animals are more than just something pretty to look at or a way to make money but cherished family pets. I handle all of my snakes on a regular basis other than my biak who just will not let me. Why? Because it's why I started collecting them.

Also, as far as the nature takes it's course thing: Here's my experiance with that. I found a yearling luecy texas rat for my friend. It had never been handled other than to move it to a different tub. With regular handling, it took tops a month to stop it from biting anything that moved. I recently sold 2 adult grey rat snakes that were in the same situation as the texas before I got them. This time, they were 5 yrs old though. After 4 months I still had to strain them/use a hook simply to clean their bedding or give them fresh water. So in my opinion from my experiance, yes, regular handling can have a positive influence on the animals temperment/stress level. Does that mean it's smart to regurally handle a 3 month old chondro? no.

Chris
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1.1.0 Irian x Jungle Carpet Pythons
1.2.0 Black Rats- Robert, Cady, Kylie
1.2.0 Albino FL Kings-Nick, Jessica, Ashley
1.1.0 Crimson Corns-Kane, Ruby
0.1.0 Het-Crimson Corns-Lola
0.1.0 White-Sided/Pos Het Albino Black Rat-Lita
1.0.0 Albino White-sided Black Rat-Rey
0.1.0 Albino/Het White-sided Black Rat-Stacey
1.2.0 Creamsicle Corns-Vince, Trish, Torrie
0.1.0 Fl King-Bonnie
1.0.1 Green Tree Pythons Biak-Brandon, Aru-Orochimaru
1.0.0 Flame X Blood Bearded-Ruff
2.4.0 Ball Pythons-Kritsy, Gretchen, Alexis, 100% het for albino balls- Naruto, Hinata, 66% het VPI Axanthic-Sasuke
0.1.0 Red-tail Boa-Xena
0.0.1 Savannah Monitor-Izzy

One thing I do notice, is that my snakes seem to recognize me over someone else. There behavior is much more different when someone else handles them, so there is a certain amount of recognition if nothing more than a scent recognition.
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1.0~amel corn~C.S.
1.3~Aztec Okeetee corns~Coatl,Maya,Acatl,Tepin
0.1.1~Green tree python~Tempest, Whisper
0.2~Rhodesian Ridgebacks~Akilah, Ona
1.0~Black fat cat~Topper
3.0~Horses~Zaarah,Galliano,Achilles.....

scientist who study the reptilian brain have a saying.they say their brain is composed of nothing more than the 4 F's.they are fighting,flighting,feeding and fornicating.if your snake reccognises your smell and decides to act differently,its because it associated your smell with one of them.most likly feeding or flighting.meaning that your smell either means feeding(wich would actually cause your snake to try and bite your hand as soon as you place it in the tank,but since thats not happening,id say its flighting.meaning that he imprinted on the idea not to take flight when your smell is near.its a safe smell.i dont think he knows you persay,but all the smells and actions you come with are safe to him.the brain works on such a primitive level and thats what makes it near impossible to tame.actions with one snake can tell that snake that your smell is a safe one and everytime to handle him,it reenforces that idea.take those same exact actions with another snake and he can enterpit it in the flight portion of the brain and react with anger at being held.he already imprinted on the idea and no matter how much you hold him he will never stop being nasty and actually constantly holding him will only reenforce the idea in his head.thats why i say that snakes will be who they are.some,after a little handling will come to know your smell as a good one(and it shouldnt take long) others will associate your smell with a bad one.either way,once established,it rarly changes.the times it does change are usually after large biological changes in the snakes brain,like after one goes through the snake version of puberty and grows up.it should not take long at all for your snake to come to know your smells(and its not months).once he knows your smell he will react as he sees fit.once he decides,theres no changing his mind with any amount of handling.he will be telling himself everytime you hold him"see,i told you it was safe" or"see,i told you he was gonna disturb us again"thats why its very rare to hear a story that a snake was nasty as hell for 2 years,then after years of handling him,he got to know me.these are common stories for mammals but they are just unheard of with snakes.that is unless the snake was a baby and grew up to be calm. "

Well, isn't that what everything is though. Humans are slightly (and I use that generously in some cases) more sophisticated, but we all work on the same premise. In some people the fornicate part is particularly strong
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1.0~amel corn~C.S.
1.3~Aztec Okeetee corns~Coatl,Maya,Acatl,Tepin
0.1.1~Green tree python~Tempest, Whisper
0.2~Rhodesian Ridgebacks~Akilah, Ona
1.0~Black fat cat~Topper
3.0~Horses~Zaarah,Galliano,Achilles.....

Blah blah balh.

I wanna see photos of this nippy cricket!