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Makers of Crofab against Anivenom Banks for Native Snakes

phobos Oct 05, 2005 12:43 PM

Fougera Inc, (Makers of CroFab)

Hello,

Thank you for your response. We are holding a CroFab Advisory Panel meeting in San Diego. This is not a general snakebite education meeting.

I looked at your website. Just so that you understand, our company is not in favor of the antivenom bank model for snakes indigenous to the United States. We do understand the purpose of this antivenom bank for non-native snakes.

We do not believe in outsourcing FDA approved drugs which are readily available through a drug wholesaler. The potential for delay in therapy flies contrary to our current snakebite educational process that time can be quite critical in treating snakebite, and any barrier to rapid therapy could be catastrophic to the patient.
______________________________________________________MY REPLY:

Thanks for your reply. That's okay the NEAVB does not plan to stock CroFab. We will stock Bioclon as it works better than Crofab on NA Rattlesnakes, besides it's not priced out of sight. You may sell it at wholesale to Hospitals but they in turn mark it up thousands of percent. One person was charged $30,000 for 10 vials used for a Cottonmouth bite. This is just one example of rediculus predatory practices that result from not having the serum supplied by member owned banks.

Thanks for the information.

Al Coritz,
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If you give somebody a match and they can keep warm for a while.
If you light them on fire, They will be warm for the rest of their life.

Replies (8)

jasonmattes Oct 05, 2005 01:37 PM

Whats bioclon?
If the hospitals are marking up the price of the AV does anyone know what they are getting it for? Just curious..

phobos Oct 05, 2005 02:27 PM

The Wholesale price is $960 per vial that last I checked. If anything it costs more.

For info on Bioclon see thread, below

Mexican Antivenom under test in Tuscon, AZ

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If you give somebody a match and they can keep warm for a while.
If you light them on fire, They will be warm for the rest of their life.

FLvenom Oct 05, 2005 02:39 PM

Man, my Urocoan looks smoking in that pic!!!

phobos Oct 05, 2005 03:12 PM

Yeah..it sure is a great looking snake.. Didn't hurt a bit getting those shot either!!

Nice disposition for a Rattler

Al
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If you give somebody a match and they can keep warm for a while.
If you light them on fire, They will be warm for the rest of their life.

psilocybe Oct 05, 2005 03:41 PM

Hi Al,

Just wondering...if a hospital stocks Crofab, and a NEAVB member gets bitten by a N.A. crotalid and Bioclon is delivered to the hospital with the victim, do you think the hospital will administer the non-FDA approved medicine upon which they make zero profit, or the FDA-approved medicine upon which they make a killing on? I have a feeling hospitals will argue that in a given situation where there are two medicines that perform the same given function, and one is FDA approved while the other isn't, they will choose the FDA approved one. In the case of an exotic bite, this would of course be a moot point because there is no FDA-approved serum for say, Naja. I know a handful of keepers I've talked to have stated preferences toward Bioclon as opposed to Crofab in the event of a N.A. crotalid envenomation (From my personal research, I would go with the Bioclon as well), but can't recall it actually being used in a bite from a native snake...anyone else know of any instances?

I'm just bringing this up because I can see hospitals arguing this point...even if one were to say "Bioclon is more effective", they could say "But Crofab is FDA approved and indicated in the treatment of N.A. crotalid envenomations". Anyone else see this being a potential problem, especially when dealing with doctors with severe "god complexes"?

psilocybe Oct 05, 2005 03:44 PM

I hate that you can't edit posts here, lol...

I should have said "I can't recall an instance where Bioclon was used in a N.A. crotalid bite WHEN Crofab was available as well". I'm sure in a situation where Bioclon was the only AV available, it may be used if the situation got dire.

texasreptiles Oct 05, 2005 04:36 PM

Psilocybe, excellent point!
BTW, you can edit your post by going to Preview Message.
Randal Berry

phobos Oct 05, 2005 07:54 PM

Hello my friend,

The group of questions you pose are actually very complex issues to sort out since the medical legal implications are vast. I propose that the best way of dealing with these issues is a two-pronged approach to make everyone comfortable with the situation.

First of all, it's very important to build a rapport with your personal physician, as well as the emergency room physicians at your local medical center. Your personal physician will actually grease the wheels regarding this liaison with the hospital emergency room. What you need to do is make an appointment with your personal physician to discuss what to do what animals you keep and provide copies of treatment protocols, as well as emergency numbers in important places and people to contact. Ask your physician if they would make initial contact and set up a meeting with the medical director of the emergency services at your local medical Center. One thing you need to remember is, you were the customer and you do have the right to direct the way you're treated. Just explain to them that emergency treatment for snakebites is just not very common for an emergency room to treat. You're just making sure for your benefit as well is there's that proper treatment protocols are established.

The other part of the equation is selecting the correct medical center and physician to be in charge of the antivenom bank. For instance, the medical director selected for the bank here in the Northeast has no problem using Bioclon over CroFab. He also mentioned that he actually prefers the old Wyeth anti-crotalid serum over CroFab.
If the AVB member was to be bitten and the local emergency room physician was told to contact Dr. XYZ is your specialist for snakebite, he would most likely do so without hesitation. Dr. XYZ would be informed that his patient Joe “Parcel Tongue” was admitted to the emergency room suffering a “ tubesnake” bite and needed antivenom and to treat this bite. Under this sort of circumstances, the local ER doctor would put up far less resistance if told to treat the bite using an imported serum and methods prescribed by Dr. XYZ.

The only problem of major concern is time. As Dr. Sean Bush correctly says, "Time is tissue". However, none of the current serums available really do very much to abate the local effects of the snake venom. For members here in the northeastern United States the bank is relatively is centrally located and the Bioclon serum could be flown into the hospital in a short time. For members that are further away there would be no other option but to treat with the antivenom on hand. I see no alternative to this till Bioclon is FDA approved over the next few years.

Obviously, this flawed in the antivenom bank system is only valid for domestic snakebite. As spelled out previously, if a keeper and is bitten by a foreign snake and you are not close to the serum bank, antivenom would be obtained from the nearest AZA facility, which has the proper serum. The zoo's serum would be immediately replaced from the antivenom bank stock, so the zoo is not without serum. This will alleviate AZA institutions from beating up on private keepers in the press.

I will have to rethink the antivenom bank concept regarding including coverage for North American crotalids. Wyeth Labs, has already told me they have limited stocks of their Anticrotalid serum and are only replacing serum used on a case-by-case basis. Subsequently, with Wyeth, and Protheric's CroFab out of the picture the antivenom bank may have to be limited to those keepers who have exotic snakes who wish coverage. I will certainly have a better picture of the situation after talking to many of the poison control center, physicians that will be attending these snakebite symposium. The third weekend in October.

Cheers!

Al

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If you give somebody a match and they can keep warm for a while.
If you light them on fire, They will be warm for the rest of their life.

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