Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I don't want to start any wars here, I was just curious what people thought about the Missing "g" or Extra "g" on the island boas? Some people use "Hog" and some use "Hogg" Its not a really big deal to me, just curious. I have seen other posts asking about the spelling, and I have seen many adds in the classifieds used both ways. Just found it interesting how some use 2 g's and some only use one. And then there is people like me who use "Cayos Cochinos Island Boas"......LOL. Just curious about your thoughts, and opinions. Thanks for your comments in advance.
David

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"Life is a Safari"

When i first looked it up, the map I used spelled it with 2 g's; so, I've spelled it that way ever since. I know other maps probably spell it with one g, but it's one of those stubborn habits with me now.
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Delusions of Grandeur feed the EGO...

seen Laura, there was a reptile website that had a map showing this as the location of Hog Island boas but i let him know,,,,,hey what do they call the boas that come from that island??? uh oh, i feel a storm brewing......Guyanaoopsimeansuriorhoggyislandbutnotthecayoscochinoskind boas? or hell i hope i didnt just give a "reptile mixologist" an idea, "has anybody crossed a box turtle with a dumeril?" argghhhhhh! sorry i have been on some antibiotics and cough syrup and i get a little froggy, and yes "M" us northerners do drink Negro Modelos but i was raised in So Cal (aka north mexico)so maybe you have to be a transplant in the chicago area to enjoy them......but them Goose Islands are mighty fine too,thanks for stopping by and do come again!,john yocum

but, I do know that these boas don't come from South America. So, if the map I originally saw just blew up the islands and labled them Cayos Cochinos as well as Hogg Islands (I even think I remember something about a big Hogg and little Hogg??), as I've never seen Guyana's Hogg Islands, perhaps I might not have known the difference, but if it included any (and I really can't remember as it has been many years)more detail, then I would have known the difference.
It is easy to see why maps like this one have caused all the confusion. This was not the map I saw, as I only remember seeing islands in the map I saw, but it's just an example of what I mean. http://www.sb-reptilien.de/verbrhogg.jpg
I've noticed on a few non-english sites, it is spelled Hogg, perhaps it is a translation error by someone who doesn't know english all that well??
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Delusions of Grandeur feed the EGO...

big hogg and little hogg? you were looking at a mispelled map of cayos cochinos most likely as there are two main islands called Cayo Grande and Cayo Pequeno or "big and little" to us gringos. and before i get blamed for somthin i know NOTHING of any boas on guyana's hogg island......i see now how IT can start (rumors, half baked TRUTHS "its true cause i read it somewhere!!"....a la "there are NO boas on Hog Island anymore!!!.....oops there is a team there now led by bob reed and scott boback catching them and implanting mcrochips....... john yocum (i gotta detox from this cold medicine before tomorrows NARBC show or no one will talk to me, maybe some negro modelos tonite will help...... any and all stop by and say hi (zoo-otics) "a little company that thought we could"

.. missing or extra 'G'.. Does even Harley Davidson mispell that word for a large pig? Pig has one 'G', so does Hog.

The animals come from Hog Island (or Cay) or perhaps more correctly, Pig Island.. this is a literal translation from the Spanish "Cayos los Cochinos".

In addition the earliest "explorers" into the field of crossbreeding and intergrading these unique and threatened animals latched on to the tag "HOGG" or "HOGG Boa". To myself and others interested in locality genetics the GG implies an intergrade or crossbreed product, not a Hog Is. boa.. we won't keep, buy or sell HOGGs.. If it doesn't signify a cross then it is illiteracy. Take yer pick.

But that's just me and my opinion.

By the way.. beautiful Boa!
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Gus
A. Rentfro
RioBravoReptiles.com
www.riobravoreptiles.com

"Quality is not an accident. Perfectly healthy animals are a minimum requirement.. everything else is just salesmanship" gus

That hurts Gus..
I am working on my master's degree, so don't consider myself completely illiterate , though I can suffer bumble-fingers when I type as easily as anyone else...
I am aware of how pig and hog are spelled in the English language. When I saw it labeled as "Hogg" on the map I looked at, I assumed English had little to do with it (as I assumed it was not the dominant language there)and it was spelled that way for another reason. I did not realize the island was a pig farm or I would have understood the map was in error. I realize that Hog Island is an translation, but still I assumed there was a reason besides illiteracy for it to be spelled Hogg on the map I read. I guess I thought they were not actually referring to our piggs...oops...pigs/hogs.
I understand where you are coming from, and I'm certainly not arguing the spelling, just couldn't leave you thinking I was stupid as a stone, that there was a reason behind my illiteracy.
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Delusions of Grandeur feed the EGO...

I was feeling left out of all the great arguments going on in here. Don't take it too seriously, I'm not. Besides, I replied to the thread-starter post, not yours.

On the other hand if you think you're right go after the proofs and show me...

If You Google HOGG Island, you do get a zillion references to recent web articles where HOGG was (incorrectly) used in lieu of Hog in describing Boa from those little Cays just east of La Ceiba, Honduras.. but not to Cayos los Cochinos.

Myself, I searched three major map databases available from the IPL (internet Public Library) and could find no map reference to those cays spelled with two Gs.. now anybody can photoshop a map and spell Hog anyway they like. I'm going with the IPL..

There are references to many Islands named Hogg, but not in Honduras. It's an old family name (there's a Jim Hogg county in Texas, great place to look for Mexican HOGnose snakes.). In grade school here we used to refer to the family as IMA Hogg, URA Hogg, SHEESA Hogg and so-on. But we didn't learn about HOGG Island, Honduras. (the other either, to be fair).

It would all be entirely a joke or just a topic for discussion except for the fact that HOGG carries a meaning other than a spelling game.. it has been and is being used as a handle for intergrade products IE: Hypo-Hogg.. so, a distinction has to be made..

Again, in my opinion.

Have fun, be safe.

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Gus
A. Rentfro
RioBravoReptiles.com
www.riobravoreptiles.com

"Quality is not an accident. Perfectly healthy animals are a minimum requirement.. everything else is just salesmanship" gus

in a platonic sort of way.
I honestly can't remember where or even when I saw the map, it was years ago. So, I certainly won't defend it.
I do not mind calling them Hogs, it is just hard to correct a habit that I've had for years....I did try to contact some public officials (or the official site of) the Hog Islands via email (on a lark) to get their opinion on the matter, but...sigh...no one returned my email...probably offended them.
Ah well, it was a fun thought.
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Delusions of Grandeur feed the EGO...

I have some personal contacts living on Roatan Island and you wouldnt like what they have to say about this topic. Sorry but to qoute them would violate the TOS Big Time !!! LMAO !!
If you do happen upon an answer/reply,bet on it being diluted and oozeing with @*&*&%$#^%$# !!

M/
(In agreement with the Locals of the Islands)

>>in a platonic sort of way.
>>I honestly can't remember where or even when I saw the map, it was years ago. So, I certainly won't defend it.
>>I do not mind calling them Hogs, it is just hard to correct a habit that I've had for years....I did try to contact some public officials (or the official site of) the Hog Islands via email (on a lark) to get their opinion on the matter, but...sigh...no one returned my email...probably offended them.
>>Ah well, it was a fun thought.
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>>Delusions of Grandeur feed the EGO...

Put another nail in IT Gus!!!
No such map of Honduras has ever exsisted denoteing HOGG Island(s)
It needed CORRECTED,settled and now never forgotten.Have no shame in dropping the hammer on politically correct rhetoric.

ESPECIALLY IN THIS FORUM !!!

M/

>>I was feeling left out of all the great arguments going on in here. Don't take it too seriously, I'm not. Besides, I replied to the thread-starter post, not yours.
>>
>>On the other hand if you think you're right go after the proofs and show me...
>>
>>If You Google HOGG Island, you do get a zillion references to recent web articles where HOGG was (incorrectly) used in lieu of Hog in describing Boa from those little Cays just east of La Ceiba, Honduras.. but not to Cayos los Cochinos.
>>
>>Myself, I searched three major map databases available from the IPL (internet Public Library) and could find no map reference to those cays spelled with two Gs.. now anybody can photoshop a map and spell Hog anyway they like. I'm going with the IPL..
>>
>>There are references to many Islands named Hogg, but not in Honduras. It's an old family name (there's a Jim Hogg county in Texas, great place to look for Mexican HOGnose snakes.). In grade school here we used to refer to the family as IMA Hogg, URA Hogg, SHEESA Hogg and so-on. But we didn't learn about HOGG Island, Honduras. (the other either, to be fair).
>>
>>It would all be entirely a joke or just a topic for discussion except for the fact that HOGG carries a meaning other than a spelling game.. it has been and is being used as a handle for intergrade products IE: Hypo-Hogg.. so, a distinction has to be made..
>>
>>Again, in my opinion.
>>
>>Have fun, be safe.
>>
>>
>>-----
>>Gus
>>A. Rentfro
>>RioBravoReptiles.com
>>www.riobravoreptiles.com
>>
>>"Quality is not an accident. Perfectly healthy animals are a minimum requirement.. everything else is just salesmanship" gus

such a map that I saw years ago. It had both the formal name and Hogg Island next to it. In fact, I used to call them Hog Islands until I saw that map, because I assumed they were referring to our pigs (I was being ethnocentric)...when I saw the map, I assumed then that I was mistaken and they were not referring to our pigs. So, I started calling them Hogg Islands. I knew nothing of "Hogg" denoting intergrades (just learned that yesterday), only what I saw on a map, which must have been notated by an illiterate person or one that was not too familiar with English words. I just didn't know that then.
In any event, I certainly wouldn't assume (I've done enough "assuming" all Hogg boas were integrades and all Hog boas were pure; it doesn't matter to me how it is spelled, same with Surinam/Suriname, as long as genetics can be backed up.
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Delusions of Grandeur feed the EGO...

RE: ...."If You Google HOGG Island, you do get a zillion references to recent web articles where HOGG was (incorrectly) used in lieu of Hog in describing Boa from those little Cays just east of La Ceiba, Honduras.. but not to Cayos los Cochinos...."

Gus, which cays are you refferring to or where are the recent articles? i googled it and didnt have any luck. i have a pretty decent map but it doesnt show any cays east (or actually northeast)of la cieba until you get to cayos cochinos (which some people are surprised to learn are actually 15 bodys of land that make up the cayos cochinos). these cays you mentioned could be just too small to show up on the map i have (although it does show a profusion of cays off the coast of Belize). hmmmmm......i am wondering if these cays you speak of could be collecting points of certain boas brought in last september 04???? well, my group will remain pure. i swear i am going to go down there some day,,,,, a scuba diving/snake field photography trip is on my trip wish list. on Cayo Grande, Hog island they have a pretty reasonable dive resort, i am checking into.i believe you can hire boats to take you all over,,,,maybe a group from KS boa forum could meet up??? thanks, john yocum , p.s. heres a shot of a female offspring produced by my hoG island female that you liked, her sister is pictured in a post way down by "kattivo", awesome contrast and color. the mother is pictured in another reply on this same thread. unfortunately no babies from her this summer but she looks ready to go now.

Search HOGG ISLAND in Google (upper or lower case) it returns over 950,000 references.. certainly many are duplictes, triplicates.. ad nauseum. The very first is for the EBV photo gallery. How nice!

Now that that is solved..I'm unclear about your other questions. You don't think there are any Cayos Cochinos? You can't find a map of them? Or you say they aren't just off the coast of Honduras?

Whatever.. it is true many Online maps are crummy, and I suppose the Islands in question are somewhat north-east but they are there. You can get quality info, maps and more on Los Cayos Cochinos, Honduras at Dive Check 2003 (since you are also into that it will serve double-purpose for you).. the link below is to a PDF file that they give away.

There is a new book out on the herpetofauna of these Cays, it is a page-turner if you're into anolis.. but one of the authors was kind enough to get photos of Boa from these islands and they used the ones which better illustrate the differences that can be noticed as opposed to the similarities. You should get that if you are wanting to learn more about the Grande and Pequeno forms and the others as well.

I hope this is of some use to you.
http://www.reefcheck.org/news/newsletter 9/hondura

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Gus
A. Rentfro
RioBravoReptiles.com
www.riobravoreptiles.com

"Quality is not an accident. Perfectly healthy animals are a minimum requirement.. everything else is just salesmanship" gus

you were saying there were some cays east of la cieba but before the cayos cochinos that held boas (outside the realm of the nature preserve). i used a paper map (whats that?..lol!)of central america that shows many of the cays of the region (man theres alot and prolly got boas just crawlin all over them), but i didnt see anything north east from la cieba until you got to the cayos cochinos....so just misunderstood you. was hoping for a possible explanation of those w/c insular boas that came in a year ago. i will try and get the book you are talking about and check out the link you provided, thanks. john yocum

I got that boa from in trade, the guy said it was a Hog Island Boa, just curious what you thought? I know you have seen probably hundreds of Hog Islands, this one is darker than my other ones. Here is another Hog Island I have. Just curious what you thought of him. Thanks
David

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"Life is a Safari"

The larger one, the one in the original post. Thanks
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"Life is a Safari"

it matter? I have seen the double g in some pretty old writtings, so the mistake was made long ago in the translation. One could attack the use of the word "hog" as wrong alltogether since the correct translation is "pig". So is it right to call them pig island boas, hogg island or hog island? Many snakes have different common names from one region to another, so how is there a "correct" one?

I'm now going to put on my helmet, jump on my 1200cc hogg and take her for a spin

As Gus explained, the "gg" was used to describe early intergrades with various mainland locales. Many were then bred back to pure Hog Isles, and retained a look very close to the (at the time) rare boa.

Hog Island boas were never formally defined by taxonomists and classified, although we commonly refer to them as imperator. The truth is not known, 100%. With that said, the proper use of a common name is all this boa has for identification.

Have either of you ever come across a motive for the early crossing of hogs with mainland boas or boas from other islands. It seems counterintuitive to do so regarding the pet trade given that the appeal of the hog island boas would have been their unique appearance and light coloring that would have only been diminished with crossing. Was it a misguided attempt to increase the natural population? I’m just curious how this snake became almost synonymous with integration and crossbreeding.

It is easy to see the motivation now with all of the hypo hogs out there. The normal offspring of these crosses have to be going somewhere. But this recent trend is market driven. What drove the older crossing? Thanks

Chris, have you chosen a school?

Alton

Without a DOUBT the most accurite post Ive ever read on this forum in regards to explaining what I consider a ^!@&^$@*&^)*&^ of any BCI form.
Blur the lines of/with orange and white snake meat all you care to,but you cant jack with brutal truth/honesty.

Round of Negra' Modelo for the house !!!
Pass the church key .........

M/

>>.. missing or extra 'G'.. Does even Harley Davidson mispell that word for a large pig? Pig has one 'G', so does Hog.
>>
>>The animals come from Hog Island (or Cay) or perhaps more correctly, Pig Island.. this is a literal translation from the Spanish "Cayos los Cochinos".
>>
>>In addition the earliest "explorers" into the field of crossbreeding and intergrading these unique and threatened animals latched on to the tag "HOGG" or "HOGG Boa". To myself and others interested in locality genetics the GG implies an intergrade or crossbreed product, not a Hog Is. boa.. we won't keep, buy or sell HOGGs.. If it doesn't signify a cross then it is illiteracy. Take yer pick.
>>
>>But that's just me and my opinion.
>>
>>By the way.. beautiful Boa!
>>-----
>>Gus
>>A. Rentfro
>>RioBravoReptiles.com
>>www.riobravoreptiles.com
>>
>>"Quality is not an accident. Perfectly healthy animals are a minimum requirement.. everything else is just salesmanship" gus

.. Elvis, has left the building!!

.. he's looking for those (just cool, not cold) Negro Modelos and a couple of Aguardientes shots.

Thanks for your enthusiastic support!

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Gus
A. Rentfro
RioBravoReptiles.com
www.riobravoreptiles.com

"Quality is not an accident. Perfectly healthy animals are a minimum requirement.. everything else is just salesmanship" gus

You Da Man ..........
Wonder if they drink such fine stuff north of the Red River ??
Prolly the reason they are as they are ..........?
Salute' !

M/

It wasn't my intention to start a fued, I was just curious. There is no sense in getting hostile over a "g" I have spelled it both ways myself, now I just go with Cayos Cochinos. Maybe the moderator will delete my post, so we don't continue with the negativity. Sorry for asking a "hot" question.
David

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"Life is a Safari"

I am never negative. I was having fun. I was also playing with Gus... I was not really wounded by his post. Sorry if it came out wrong.
It makes no difference to me what they are called. If I like it, I will buy it. If I want specific lines, I will research to get them. If someone wanted to sell a chocolate brown boa as a crap-a-doo boa...why, if I liked it I would buy it.
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Delusions of Grandeur feed the EGO...

At the current rate the mutt market is shoveling this propaganda its about all you end up with anyway
(not picking on LV just trolling the thread)

M/

>>I am never negative. I was having fun. I was also playing with Gus... I was not really wounded by his post. Sorry if it came out wrong.
>>It makes no difference to me what they are called. If I like it, I will buy it. If I want specific lines, I will research to get them. If someone wanted to sell a chocolate brown boa as a crap-a-doo boa...why, if I liked it I would buy it.
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>>
>>Delusions of Grandeur feed the EGO...

I don't feel picked on in the slightest. I think there is room in this world for designers as well as localities. I highly respect both types of breeders. One practices freedom, the other diligence (the fact that they are diligent and not fallen to greed is very recommendable, as long as they are maturely tolerant of those that are different than them) and I think we can need both. As wrong as it may seem to some people (everyone is entitled to the freedom of opinion, as long as they express it maturely), I plan to do both myself. I want the best of both worlds. I like the island and dwarf boas, and when I get them, I will be sure to go to Gus, or another breeder of true localities, because I want them to be pure; but, on the same note, I don't want to be denied my designers either. I want it all, dagnabbit, and that what makes me American...
But, hey, at least I am not brash, uncouth, and uncivilized too... I don't spit in front of women or children and don't burp or scratch myself in public....
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Delusions of Grandeur feed the EGO...

We don't call you something like "Laurachrosis" *lol*...
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EMAIL

that until about a year ago, nearly every ad for Hogs had them listed as "Hoggs." It was the popular spelling. I'm sure it will be spelled both ways for many more moons.

Phil Goss