Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Ok guys before you get your nats twisted in a ringer,This is only a good old fashion debate.That has left way too many unanswered questions!If the keepers of the true redtails can have a good debate without getting it jerked then,Lets at least give it a try???????????????Jungles,I know that they were named over in sweden,But does sweden have jungles[real oxygen making ones]?Which means they were wild caught an imported over to their country,right?Bread together an then named?Why have we not seen any more of these beauties being brought in from somewhere?Did they get the only pair in the world?Dont think so,But worse has happened I reckin!A jungle is a jungle an I know that now!This years pic's helped alot with that understanding!But I feel it is very strange we see all other animals that get imported every year an still nothing that has ever come out of the jungle to produce the awsome jungle!Please forgive any miss spelled words an thanks for any an all opinions!Eric[Hypoboa]
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E&C's Exotic House of Reptiles

I agree with you. In every other morph, the can be imported and still be recognized as the same morph. For example say i have a pete kahl pied ball. Then my neighbor imports a pied ball. Do we not call his a pied?

That comparison makes no sense what-so-ever. Why don't I just purchase a het. albino and you get one from importation and just because the one you imported looks like mine we'll call it a het. too. Are you serious? A pied is a visual morph and can easily be identified. Just because you purchase an import that has a similar phenotype does that mean it is the same morph and it will work in a co-dominant fashion as the real jungle? Is it possible to import some jungles.... Hell yeah! But it is up to you to breed that boa and prove it's genetics out. What makes things with jungles so complicated is that aberrancies in boas are not that rare so it’s fairly easy to confuse one as a jungle. You are going to get a boa in which the phenotype is not genetic and you can’t produce super forms of the trait. Why have people prove out the trait you might ask? Would you want to pay 3 to 4k for a boa that may not be what you thought?

>>That comparison makes no sense what-so-ever. Why don't I just purchase a het. albino and you get one from importation and just because the one you imported looks like mine we'll call it a het. too. Are you serious? A pied is a visual morph and can easily be identified. Just because you purchase an import that has a similar phenotype does that mean it is the same morph and it will work in a co-dominant fashion as the real jungle? Is it possible to import some jungles.... Hell yeah! But it is up to you to breed that boa and prove it's genetics out. What makes things with jungles so complicated is that aberrancies in boas are not that rare so it’s fairly easy to confuse one as a jungle. You are going to get a boa in which the phenotype is not genetic and you can’t produce super forms of the trait. Why have people prove out the trait you might ask? Would you want to pay 3 to 4k for a boa that may not be what you thought?

I know your post wasnt all pointed towards my post,But before we get off the topic of bringing up this whole debate,I want to add somthing that I may not have been completely clear on in my starter post!?!I fully understand that their are many abberant boa's out their that have simalarities of the jungle trait,heck I got one!An I fully understand what step's have to be taken to prove this animal out to be,or not to be,lol!An yes their are quite a few still today that like to pass off fake jungles!But my question is,like posted above,Where are they all at?Why do we not see any imports coming in that produce these awsome babies?Or do they an we just don't hear about them?The originator's can't be the only ones,can they?Thanks Eric[Hypoboa]
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E&C's Exotic House of Reptiles

Eric, to answer your question.... I honestly believe that there are people that have jungles in their possession and probably do not know it or are waiting to prove it/them out. I would not be surprised if there was a jungle in a pet store somewhere selling for $100. You really won't hear too much of jungles being imported because there is no way other than breeding to verify it. Does this kind of answer your question?

You kind of missed my point. If someone has a boa that is jungelish and produces more jungleish boas with it, at what point is that boa a jungle? Or is it only a jungle if it comes from a proven swedish line? Or will it only be a jungle if it is bred to a known jungle and produces superjungles? See what I am saying? I do not have any jungles nopr any boas that look like jungles. someone trying to learn more about these boas.

It's a true jungle if it proves compatible with the Swedish line. If your aberrant boa proves to be genetic and not compatible with the jungle, then you’re free to label it whatever you wish. What I mean by visual morph is a morph that is easily distinguishable from a normal. A Motley is always going to look like a Motley, even the ones that do not have complete pattern. There is no set pattern to describe a jungle other then good color and aberrancies. If you get an albino with a small stripe on its tail is it all of a sudden from the stripe line? Do you see where I'm coming from?

yeah. So basically you would have to breed it to a known jungle and see if it produces supers right?

Yeah but it's a win-win situation. If you make orange eyed supers then you get some big money coming in your direction. If you get your own line of genetic aberant boas then you get big money too.

Gotcha. thanks for the information

>>Eric, to answer your question.... I honestly believe that there are people that have jungles in their possession and probably do not know it or are waiting to prove it/them out. I would not be surprised if there was a jungle in a pet store somewhere selling for $100. You really won't hear too much of jungles being imported because there is no way other than breeding to verify it. Does this kind of answer your question?

I just figured with all the debate about the jungles,That their would be alot more info out their on the line,than what their is!?I mean think about it,all one ever hears about is the swedish line,really everything is always about the swedish lines!You never hear about any boas that have been imported in that are proven to be actuall descendants of the originating line?An I find that really strange!The jungle boa reminds me of a phantom that just happened once an has never happened again,Except for the original line that we see still today!Thats the big mystery too me?I mean does anyone actually know where the 2 originating animals was even collected?Thanks again an you take care,Eric[Hypoboa]
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E&C's Exotic House of Reptiles

I think that there are a few things to consider. First, jungles are a fairly new morph. Second, jungles have not really been heavily distributed until maybe the last 2 to 3 years.
Third, people are putting or will put jungles with other jungles or morphs to create supers or new morphs such as the salmon jungle.

I believe that once jungles become more affordable and even better distributed that we will see people prove out aberant boas as jungles.

>>I think that there are a few things to consider. First, jungles are a fairly new morph. Second, jungles have not really been heavily distributed until maybe the last 2 to 3 years.
>>Third, people are putting or will put jungles with other jungles or morphs to create supers or new morphs such as the salmon jungle.
>>
>>I believe that once jungles become more affordable and even better distributed that we will see people prove out aberant boas as jungles.

I think you are 100% correct only time will cure this debate an it will definatley be worth watching an learning!Thanks Eric[Hypoboa]
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E&C's Exotic House of Reptiles

Isnt the jungle boa a visual morph?

I would imagine that there are many jungles out there that would prove to be real deal jungles if breeding were done properly.I think the likelyhood of importing, selecting, and then getting it into the right hands (someone who knows what to do with it to prove it out) is a long hard road, and many are lost along the way.
Look at motleys. There is no mistaking a motley when you see it, but how many do you see imported? If a few were, you would know right away they were motleys, but there are very few that make it to the classifieds.
Jungles would be even harder to come across, or prove out. First, you would need an importer who knew what he is looking for. He would have to have a lot of experience with true jungles in order to chose the ones with the right phenotype. That is hard, considering some breeders have difficulty(thus the phrase "possible jungle", even when dealing with animals that are known decendents of true jungles. Then it would have to be proven out of course. By the time it is proven out, you are back to the same price you are looking at now. There are people out there checking imports for the "qualities", but even with those qualities it aint a jungle until a super jungle it does make.
If you had a group of 1000 connected patterned snakes, it would be easy to pick out a motley.If you had 1000 aberrants, and threw in one slightly abby jungle, I am guessing that more than a few quesses about which one it was would be wrong.If you can't tell it in a group knowing one is there, how can you expect to know there is a jungle when there is a very good possibility that none are? It was mentioned that there are probably jungles sitting in shops right now for 100 bucks. I am sure there are non abby jungles for less than that that will never be proven, or even used in a breeding project.If it were any other morph, it would be recognized by the first boa guy that walked in the door, and raised up for 3 years. Instead, they are probably housed poorly, and sold 3-4 times in their lives to other people through newspaper ads as "redtailed boas". The problem isn't that there are too few out there. The problem is that they are falling into the wrong hands to be proven as jungles.
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Davey Giltner

>>I would imagine that there are many jungles out there that would prove to be real deal jungles if breeding were done properly.I think the likelyhood of importing, selecting, and then getting it into the right hands (someone who knows what to do with it to prove it out) is a long hard road, and many are lost along the way.
>>Look at motleys. There is no mistaking a motley when you see it, but how many do you see imported? If a few were, you would know right away they were motleys, but there are very few that make it to the classifieds.
>>Jungles would be even harder to come across, or prove out. First, you would need an importer who knew what he is looking for. He would have to have a lot of experience with true jungles in order to chose the ones with the right phenotype. That is hard, considering some breeders have difficulty(thus the phrase "possible jungle", even when dealing with animals that are known decendents of true jungles. Then it would have to be proven out of course. By the time it is proven out, you are back to the same price you are looking at now. There are people out there checking imports for the "qualities", but even with those qualities it aint a jungle until a super jungle it does make.
>>If you had a group of 1000 connected patterned snakes, it would be easy to pick out a motley.If you had 1000 aberrants, and threw in one slightly abby jungle, I am guessing that more than a few quesses about which one it was would be wrong.If you can't tell it in a group knowing one is there, how can you expect to know there is a jungle when there is a very good possibility that none are? It was mentioned that there are probably jungles sitting in shops right now for 100 bucks. I am sure there are non abby jungles for less than that that will never be proven, or even used in a breeding project.If it were any other morph, it would be recognized by the first boa guy that walked in the door, and raised up for 3 years. Instead, they are probably housed poorly, and sold 3-4 times in their lives to other people through newspaper ads as "redtailed boas". The problem isn't that there are too few out there. The problem is that they are falling into the wrong hands to be proven as jungles.
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>>Davey Giltner
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E&C's Exotic House of Reptiles