Reptile & Amphibian Forums

jungles...I wonder if I will ever be able to tell a low expression from a normal. It's mind boggling! But, perhaps I just need glasses. I can see the obvious difference in some jungles (of the normal strain..I'm clueless about hypo jungles and albino jungles - they look like regulars to me)...but some normals are just too close for me to see a real difference. It doesn't really matter if this male is low expression or not, as I plan to use him either way.

But, I do plan to breed jungles one day soon...my dilemma is telling the low expressions from the normals...I'm sure it is a guestimate at best, because I think I remember hearing about a "normal" from a jungle litter that looked decidedly "jungle" after its first few sheds. If this is so, then apparently some look the part right from the eggs sack while others come into the part. What's a breeder to do? I guess, hang onto them for awhile.

We've had a lot of debates lately, so I decided to toss this one out again. All in all, I would like the finer differences pointed out to me, using these two animals. I need enlightenment. For those of you sick of explaining it of hearing about it, please ignore this post. I'm not trying instigate anything or ruffle any feathers.

Point in part -
Here is Dave's low expression jungle - a very nice animal indeed. (Sorry Dave - you are the only one I know of off the top of my head that has a low expression that you recently posted a pic of) Also noted - Dave is a better photographer!

Here is my normal male from a jungle litter after 2 sheds, working on a 3rd:

Compared to a normal baby (sorry - one is huge):



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Delusions of Grandeur feed the EGO...

I know this is not what you are asking...but an insight into my logic.

The only reason I decided to "pay" for a Jungle from someone I trust was for...PEACE OF MIND.
I think Celia's guarantee is the best in the industry...if he does not prove out, she will replace him with a "same age" Jungle (not a baby).

But I know yours came from a quality breeder, so good luck...I hope he proves out for you.
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Dave Lee

I love the bigger pics - they show so much better detail. I size mine down to fit on a screen...almost wish I didn't...because I can never go back and make them larger without distorting the pic and losing even more detail. As you can see, I forgot to down size one....and it wasn't even a good pic..sigh...
I also like your pics so much better! I am no good with a camera. I point and shoot hordes of pics, to end up with a few that are ok...wish I could go outside...but the sun always hits my front yard head on pretty much the whole day through...We are at a horrible angle...my back yard is for the dogs...and they would gladly play tug-o-war with my boas...ok...I am also hiding away from the heat...I'd rather not leave a puddle where ever I stand...and no, I don't suffer from a weak bladder...
Sorry...I'm rambling on...probably bored...guess I can go clean out the rats...
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Delusions of Grandeur feed the EGO...

when you downsize pics, don't save as the original filename. ie jungle1.jpg, when downsized I would save as jungle1sm.jpg

Not sure what you're running but I have windows XP. I select a photo or 12 from a subdirectory, you can use ctrl to select individual photos or shift to select a consecutive group. Then right click one of the selected photos to open the pull down menu. Click on "open" Then you can resize, rotate, crop etc. but first before I do anything I click on file - save as - rename to new file
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Thanks,

Dave "Rainbows-R-Us"

0.1 Wife
0.2 kids
4.12.100 Brazilian Rainbow Boa
1.1 Ball python
0.1 BCI "Elvira" normal from 1989
1.0 BCI albino / het-anery
0.1 BCI Hypo / het-albino
0.1 BCI Anery / het-albino
0.1 BCI Hypo (possible super)
1.0 BCI albino het stripe
1.0 BCI salmon hypo
0.1 BCI ghost

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

to distinguish.

Will there be exceptions? Of course. They are not the norm however.

Here is my non-aberrant jungle ... not sure if I'd call him low expression because the mutation is much more than just saddle aberrancies. Saddle-washout, abrupt coloration change between dorsal and lateral areas, overall color scheme and white bordering to name a few.

Here's mine that I purchased from Peter Kahl:

Look like a normal to you?

that doesn't look like a normal. Adults are probably easier to tell than babies that haven't gotten their color in yet. That is a stunning animal and I love the outlined pattern. Do you have a baby pic of it after only a couple of sheds?
But then too, with Gray's Bianca as a mother, my boy will probably be intensely colored as an adult. I don't know if even then I would know for sure what he was until I bred him. I guess time will tell. Either way, it doesn't matter to me, it's just the being able to tell the babies apart, more specifically the ones that don't appear jungle light at birth.

Or do they have to be jungle light at birth? Can it be that the ones that don't appear jungle light at birth are definitely not jungle, no matter how much they look like one after a few sheds?
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Delusions of Grandeur feed the EGO...

maybe, I can offer one experience. In addition to the 5-6 things that people look for, you sometimes hear one more saying "it is more apparant when in hand". I didn't know what that meant until I opened the box. When I first held it, I could tell that there was something "very wrong" (hehe..in a good way) with this snake. It is hard to describe...but it looked pale, faded, light...but with great contrast. It looked like there was something not right. Now, I have had light pastels, and they are not the same.
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Dave Lee

I was actually in awe when I saw this male in full blue as light as he was in the pics I just posted. He was in full blue in those pics (just shed his eyecaps). He shed out within 3 days. I took pics of him yesterday, but he was so light the flash washed him out, like it does to albinos. I wish I could get good pics without having the flash wash...I am just not good with those.

Here are the results after he shed out. Tehy came out bone white/no color...I will have to figure out how to take good pics of this guy...Pretty sad if a snake in full blue looks better than fresh shed...at least when I am taking the picture.

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Delusions of Grandeur feed the EGO...

that I would bet are hypo jungles. I think they are only $2500 too. Much lower than $7000-$1200.
Mike Burton