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Zonata activity in the Fall - lots of questions for the field experts

markg Oct 07, 2005 02:10 PM

Frank Retes brought up an interesting discussion regarding pyromelana. Field observations have apparently shown that adult pyros in their natural habitat are feeding like crazy this time of year. In captivity, most keepers experience a complete refusal to feed at this time. For years we thought the snakes wanted to go dormant. Frank shows that in the wild they aren't dormant yet by any means.

What about zonata? Let's talk about the San Bernardino zonata for example. In captivity, mine would always shut off in early August. But what about in the wild?

Does anyone have any experience finding zonata in the Fall in the San Bernardino/San Jacinto mtns? Anyone study zonata life cycle during the whole year? Has anyone maintained zonata that fed during Fall?

Retes suggested that the likely reason pyro shut down for keepers is because we fail to give them the choices of temperature and humidity that they are looking for at this time of year, and they react by going dormant as the light cycle changes. He suggests that perhaps their desired temps and humidity may change from Spring to Summer to Fall to Winter. In the wild, they can find the conditions they desire. But all we do as keepers is give them one cage with one very narrow temp range and whatever humidity is in the room for all seasons except maybe Winter.

I know that Dr Seward with Gila monsters says that although the average temp of Gila monsters measured in the wild is about the range of most sweaterbox systems, they don't breed readily if kept that way (meaning narrow temp range.) He has shown predictable results when the animals are offered a larger range of temps.

Anyway, all good stuff. I would love to hear any insight.
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Mark G
Montane snakes are the coolest...

Replies (4)

lamprophil Oct 07, 2005 02:26 PM

....since I found the critter in the picture a couple weeks ago (not in the San Jacks or San Berdoos, but close), and it clearly had just eaten. I was a litte surprised to see the full belly, as my captive agalmas were already mostly done feeding for the year. It's always seemed a little odd to me that they'll shut down for winter during some of the hottest times of the year. I've also noticed a fair amount of individual variation among my agalma - some will continue to eat for six weeks after the others have quit - in fact, one is still going and ate last night.

Humidity seems like a reasonable suspect - I wonder if a spritz of water daily in their enclosure might trigger a feeding response?

markg Oct 12, 2005 02:26 PM

It is obvious that zonata are on the move in the Fall. Maybe going to their preferred wintering areas perhaps, but active nevertheless, and feeding when they can.

I never liked the idea that wild females produce on just Springtime feeding. Doesn't make sense. They are feeding right now out there. Just not in captivity for alot of us.
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Mark G
Montane snakes are the coolest...

jeph Oct 24, 2005 01:46 PM

Hi mark,
A friend of mine caught a baby mtn.king 2 weeks ago-(actually a little over,right at the start of Oct.) but he found it on his deck in the morning and put a bucket over it. I got there and removed the bucket and found a baby Parv. and a regurged baby alligator lizard. I dont know if it was stressed and thats why it regurged or what. But it is the first time i've seen a regurge from a wild Z., but it had to of ate within the last few days.This was also the 2nd zonata he has found in his yard this year-(the first one I didnt get to see, it was ana dult and he was scared to catch it,lol). The latest I've seen a Z has been in Oct. too-(years ago though) while looking for some rubber boas-(which are easy to find in the early fall,by me anyways) thought you might find it interesting.
jeff teel

markg Oct 28, 2005 02:58 PM

Hi Jeff
Darn nice pyro you have!

I would bet that baby zonata may not have regurged if it could have gotten back to a place where temps were just high enough for digestion to proceed. That and no stress.

I've pressed and pressed a few folks who have tremendous field experience. They don't give up info easily, until I forwarded some details of conditions of when I've found zonata, then they broke out a little info. Very little.

You're lucky Jeff to live right in the action up there in the SBs!

Some info for any who care:

Suffice to say, they (zonata) stay actively feeding as long as they can, and they may be moving around some all year if temps allow. Not every individual, as some may stay put in the same area for years.

Also, not every spot hold the same temps. Some areas stay warmer longer. I don't mean locales. I mean microhabitats within habitats.

When I first learned about zonata and habitat, I was basically told that they are active in Spring and that is it for the year. Obviously that can't be true by any stretch. They may be seen more often in Spring perhaps, but that doesn't mean anything other than they may be more surface active at that time. Doesn't mean they are done living for the year.

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