Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have a 5 foot burm (never had it probed) which I keep in a plastic sweaterbox enclosure at 90 degrees during the day down to around 80 at night with a constant 90%humidity. In the 8 months i’ve had it, it’s been the ideal snake, never struck at me even during feedings (freshly conked out rats once a week) with regular handling every day by myself or my wife. This is a snake i’ve taken out to classrooms to show how friendly a herp can be. Suddenly today, with no provacation, he’s started striking at everything, even leaping 2/3rds his body length into the air attacking my torso. My wife had taken him out and was reading whilst he sat in her lap (as usual) when his behavior switched, and I came home to find him curled in striking position in the middle of the floor acting very aggressive. I put a pillowcase over his head, and picked him up to examine him, his eyes are clear (he shed about a month and a half ago), inside his mouth looks healthy, and he didn’t seem to be injured or have any skin problems. I have no idea whats going on, any ideas?

Well,

I will probably get flamed for this, but I am one that feels that a burm has NO PLACE in a plastic sweaterbox, other than a hatchling with a breeder where they will not be there for long. As a constant enclosure the animal needs AND DESERVES to be treated as an ANIMAL and not a sweater. She is kept at a full 90 degrees all day which is wrong. 92 high side and around 78-82 cool side. Her humidity is far too high. knock it back down to about 60-70%. Too high of humidity can cause an RI. Put her in a proper cage, with proper substrate, with proper heating/humidity. Give her some time to settle in (one to two weeks with gentle and short handling in between).

If you adjust your husbandry practices, I am sure she will adjust her temperament.

I hope this helps in some way.

Chris
-----
Chris Law
U.A.P.P.E.A.L. (Uniting a Proactive Primate and Exotic Animal League)
Herpetoculture Element Representative

I feel the same way as Gioni about this one, that snake needs a real cage. But I disagree with him in one area, humidity. IMO the humidity should never exceed 60% unless the snake is in shed. I know people that keep it at 40% normal (no higher) and 70% when the snake is in shed. 60-70% is too high for regular humidity IMO. I keep my cages between 45-55% regular and about 80% shed time.
-----
Corbin

Is it just me or do you seem really stupid?!

My Page, check it out for pics and vids

How old is the snake?

The animal was about 2.5 feet when I recieved him, I'm guessing he's a year old or so.

I have never had a problem with the 60-70% humidity range, but should never go higher than that, other than for a short period of time for sheds. 90% as I indicated is far too high for a standard humidity level. However, I must say that I have never seen a burm have an RI or any other problems with a 60-70% humidity level for a burm.

I have even taken brought this up in a discussion below where Rob Carmichael has verified these humidity levels and claims he has used the same humidity levels for 25-35 years with no problems. Please see:

http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=896724,897257

Just thought I would give me .02 cents if it's worth anything.

Best Wishes,

Chris
-----
Chris Law
U.A.P.P.E.A.L. (Uniting a Proactive Primate and Exotic Animal League)
Herpetoculture Element Representative

Just for informations sake, the average annual relative humidity levels over the majority of the range of the burmese python in southeast Asia is 60 to 80%. Not that it needs to be exactly duplicated in captivity, but it should probably at least be maintained in the lower half of this range.

Kelly

I have used everything from a cheap plastic walmart hydrometer to a $75 digital hydrometer to measure humidity in my burms cages. I know that humidty is high in south east Asia, but burms do not need 60% in captivity (unless they are in shed). I know it will not cause problems, I just don't set mine that high. 45-55% is easy to achieve and keeps my burms healthy, so that's what I stick with. Also in my previous message about humidity, I said that was my opinion. So please don't get upset with me.
-----
Corbin

Is it just me or do you seem really stupid?!

My Page, check it out for pics and vids

Why does this forum not show plus signs after a number? In my above message it should say "burms do not need 60% plus in captivity (unless they are in shed)".
-----
Corbin

Is it just me or do you seem really stupid?!

My Page, check it out for pics and vids

Corbin,

I maintain a 60-70% humidity level quite easily and it also help me to prevent heavy monitoring and spraying when the snake is going into shed. While these ranges may not exactly be "necessary", I feel that over all the snake benefits much better as a result as this will be a more natural humidity level for them. Your lower humidity ranges may not harm the snake necessarily, but it isn't quite what they are receiving in their own homeland range. It is my opinion that even though humans cannot recreate nature....we can certainly try. I am not trying to say what you are doing is wrong, rather I am just stating that those levels aren't quite what they would receive in a natural environment.

In my opinion, if you going to keep an animal such as this, it should be what is the most normal and comfortable for the animal that is important, not necessarily what is convenient for the keeper.

I am not blasting your husbandry because obviously it works for you. Your burm is healthy to the best of my knowledge and therefore your practices aren't harming your snake any. I am only stating my opinion so you will understand why I recommend a 60-70% humidity range.

Best Wishes,

Chris
-----
Chris Law
U.A.P.P.E.A.L. (Uniting a Proactive Primate and Exotic Animal League)
Herpetoculture Element Representative

I totally understand. You are a knowledgable keeper and have healthy snakes from what I know. All I can say is if it works for you, then keep doing it.
-----
Corbin

Is it just me or do you seem really stupid?!

My Page, check it out for pics and vids

Hi.. Wondering how you keep and maintain the humidity levels you say you have? And what substrates you use. I have used Cypress mulch for a while and it gets me pretty good humidity levels. esp. when shedding. I have to manually mist the cages every other day or so though.. Maybe I need to get a auto. mister?
TIA

>>Hi.. Wondering how you keep and maintain the humidity levels you say you have?

I place the waterbowl under the bulb itself. However, using this method (and you should always do this regardless) you have to make sure you have decent ventilation.

And what substrates you use.

Well, I have recently switched to Aspen. I have been using Pine which has worked on many snakes for quite a while with no problems. However, Rob Carmichael mentions that the dust can cause RI's. In burms, they are highly susceptible to RI's so I felt that it was better to be safe than sorry and to switch the bedding. Cypress is also perfectly fine.

I have used Cypress mulch for a while and it gets me pretty good humidity levels. esp. when shedding.

Cypress is a good bedding, however, if you are not too careful it can boost humidity too high which is also not good.

I have to manually mist the cages every other day or so though.. Maybe I need to get a auto. mister?

An auto mister is not necessary. If you want to try to maintain the same humidity levels I am maintaining, then simply move the water bowl under the heating element. Be sure to have good ventilation and also be sure to check/change water daily or bi-daily.

Hope this helps,

Chris
-----
Chris Law
U.A.P.P.E.A.L. (Uniting a Proactive Primate and Exotic Animal League)
Herpetoculture Element Representative

Ok, you eggheads, while you all are arguing about humidity, this poor guy still has a big python biting at his a#$. How about some more ideas to help his immediate problem. Ok, sorry in advance for the egghead comment, lol.
-----
1.1 Jungle Carpet Python
1.1 Ball Python
1.1 Corn Snake
0.1 Gray band Kingsnake
0.1 Desert Kingsnake
0.1 Pueblan Milksnake
1.0 Bullsnake
1.0 Rhodesian Ridgeback
0.1 Spouse
0.0.8 hatchling ball pythons

While admittedly I'm no expert on Burms, I would think that the constantly warm temperature, without a cage large enough for heat gradients is more likely to have gotten the burm all fired up, rather than the humidity problem.

-----
1.1 Jungle Carpet Python
1.1 Ball Python
1.1 Corn Snake
0.1 Gray band Kingsnake
0.1 Desert Kingsnake
0.1 Pueblan Milksnake
1.0 Bullsnake
1.0 Rhodesian Ridgeback
0.1 Spouse
0.0.8 hatchling ball pythons

Regardless, humidity is something that needs to be addressed. Temperatures and humidity fall hand in hand in proper husbandry of any reptile. Correcting one without correcting the other is like making a ham and cheese sandwhich but forgetting the cheese. Like I said in my post below, the humidity is most likely not something that is directly related to his change in temperament. However, it does work hand in hand with the items that are affecting it, in which case that means that ALL issues need to be addressed.

Best Wishes,

Chris
-----
Chris Law
U.A.P.P.E.A.L. (Uniting a Proactive Primate and Exotic Animal League)
Herpetoculture Element Representative

With the changing of seasons in the US, the possibility of RI is greater, especially with keepers taking their snakes out of their enclosures and exposing them to chills. Last year, I received an asymptomatic P.m.bivittatus with a RI from a Zoo. This python exhibited sudden behavioral changes (including striking) and I could not figure out why. When it died suddenly (48 hours after showing first symptoms), the necropsy revealed it suffered from a viral RI. Looking back, I attribute the python's behavioral changes to the RI.

There could be other reasons behind a sudden behavioral change. Snakes (and many other reptiles) are terrible about letting us know how they feel or whether they are sick or not. I hope that it is not sick; I am just offering a possibility from a personal observation.

As for Chris's statement about humidity in its home range, yes, it is usually 60-80% humidity here in most of SE Asia and personally recorded by me in record where I live. During dry conditions, it sometimes goes down in the 50%'s and highs in the 90%'s, but not often. It also must be remembered that these low levels are only during the day, when the python is underground where humidity levels are much higher than above ground.

I currently have a healthy WC P.m.bivittatus that was caught in my neighborhood (still had evidence of the egg tooth when caught, probably looking for its first meal!).

Cheers,

Michael

Get a barometer. I fish, so i happen to watch the barometric pressure and tides all of the time, the fishing is best when it is low. Almost all of the hits I have taken were when the pressure was high (except if I’m stupid and have rat scent on me). When the pressure is high they just aren’t really feeling great and they don’t want to put up with being handled. I have a burm and he has done the same thing to me. When the pressure is high I usually only handle my most trusted animals but even they can get a little grumpy. I got stuck in the face by my dumeril’s boa a few days ago and she is always really calm (high pressure). I’m not saying it is the only cause, some animals are always aggressive, but there happens to be a strong correlation between grumpy behavior and high pressure. My wife doesn’t know it but I like to predict her moods based on it too. If you don’t want to spend the money on a barometer just take note of your snake’s behavior before and after a large storm or front.

0.1 Jungle Carpet Python
1.1 Ball Python
1.0 Albino Burmese
0.1 Dumeril’s Boa
0.1 Argentine BC
0.1 Borneo Blood
1.0 Brazilian Rainbow Boa
1.0 Columbian BCI
1.0 Central American BCI
3.2 Bearded Dragon
1.0 Veiled Chameleon
1.1 Fat Tail gecko
1.0 Mali Uromastyx

Hadn't considered that, and I also fish, but you may very well have a point. Thanks.

Quig

I would have never thought of that one. I think I will get a barometer and do some experimenting for myself.

Thanks for the idea!

Best Wishes,

Chris

>>Get a barometer. I fish, so i happen to watch the barometric pressure and tides all of the time, the fishing is best when it is low. Almost all of the hits I have taken were when the pressure was high (except if I’m stupid and have rat scent on me). When the pressure is high they just aren’t really feeling great and they don’t want to put up with being handled. I have a burm and he has done the same thing to me. When the pressure is high I usually only handle my most trusted animals but even they can get a little grumpy. I got stuck in the face by my dumeril’s boa a few days ago and she is always really calm (high pressure). I’m not saying it is the only cause, some animals are always aggressive, but there happens to be a strong correlation between grumpy behavior and high pressure. My wife doesn’t know it but I like to predict her moods based on it too. If you don’t want to spend the money on a barometer just take note of your snake’s behavior before and after a large storm or front.
>>
>>0.1 Jungle Carpet Python
>>1.1 Ball Python
>>1.0 Albino Burmese
>>0.1 Dumeril’s Boa
>>0.1 Argentine BC
>>0.1 Borneo Blood
>>1.0 Brazilian Rainbow Boa
>>1.0 Columbian BCI
>>1.0 Central American BCI
>>3.2 Bearded Dragon
>>1.0 Veiled Chameleon
>>1.1 Fat Tail gecko
>>1.0 Mali Uromastyx
-----
Chris Law
U.A.P.P.E.A.L. (Uniting a Proactive Primate and Exotic Animal League)
Herpetoculture Element Representative

Hello Egghead,

Actually the humidity whether it is directly related or not certainly plays a role in it. Once again, as I have stated in my original response to his concerns, husbandry is the first major factor. Handling isn't going to help much if there are husbandry issues that need to be addressed. Once a animal is set up appropriately, then worry about temperament as 9/10 they are hand in hand.

Best Wishes,

Chris
-----
Chris Law
U.A.P.P.E.A.L. (Uniting a Proactive Primate and Exotic Animal League)
Herpetoculture Element Representative

Chris,
Do you work at the San Antonio zoo? It seems like I remember reading that in another post somewhere. I'm driving down to San Antonio for business this weekend and might stop by that zoo for a visit. I haven't been to that one in years.
Kirk
-----
1.1 Jungle Carpet Python
1.1 Ball Python
1.1 Corn Snake
0.1 Gray band Kingsnake
0.1 Desert Kingsnake
0.1 Pueblan Milksnake
1.0 Bullsnake
1.0 Rhodesian Ridgeback
0.1 Spouse (WC)
0.0.8 hatchling ball pythons

I could almost copy the first post to a tee right now.

I have a 5 1/2'-6' 04' male burm(with no eyes), that today for the first time ever freaked out and bit the sh*t out of me. I mean for real, he hit my armpit so hard I have bruise where the top of his mouth hit. He got me a 2nd time right after that.

I had him out like I always do, just sitting there watching TV and all of the sudden he hit me like I was a rat. Ofcourse I held him for about 1/2 hr then put him back, but he never realy calmed down, now he is just sitting there ready to bite anything. He has even struck the top of his cage, something he has never done before.

I am keeping him the same way as all my other burms, and the same way he has been kept for over a year, so I know it's not my set up or anything. This is the first male I have ever raised up, maybe cause it's he first year he could breed(I do have females around) and it's getting to be that time of year. I do kind feel bad for him as he will never breed, you know no eyes and all.

Oh well, sh#t happens, Just thought it was funny, this post, and then out of the blue I get the same thing happing here.

BTW, again as I'm typing this another damm python is on the news(WFLA channel 8), This time it's a A.rock in a turkey coop(is it coop or coup?), that is three pythons in the news in FL in what, a week?

They didn't say if it was wild or not, but they were acting as if it was a wild one.

OK hasn't happened to me yet, mine is supposed to be a female, but it does make me wonder if reaching sexual maturity has anything to do with it. Personally I've never had a mature snake of any kind go off on me like that. Something to ponder though. Are these normals, and if not might there be something in the genetics that might cause this? OK, maybe that's far feched, but it's got me brain tickin'.

Quig

I was told he is dh albino/lab but I was also sent a snake with no eyes so I don't know.

I'll have him out again today, it cage cleaning day around here, so I'll see if he is still mad at me.

I have raised up females before, and I've had 10' males before with no "freak outs", so I'm not sure what caused this.

I just hope he out grows it.

Oh, don't worry about, just adjust the humidity, he'll be fine.
-----
1.1 Jungle Carpet Python
1.1 Ball Python
1.1 Corn Snake
0.1 Gray band Kingsnake
0.1 Desert Kingsnake
0.1 Pueblan Milksnake
1.0 Bullsnake
1.0 Rhodesian Ridgeback (Hondo)
0.1 Spouse (WC)
0.0.8 hatchling ball pythons

>>Oh, don't worry about, just adjust the humidity, he'll be fine.
>>-----
>>1.1 Jungle Carpet Python
>>1.1 Ball Python
>>1.1 Corn Snake
>>0.1 Gray band Kingsnake
>>0.1 Desert Kingsnake
>>0.1 Pueblan Milksnake
>>1.0 Bullsnake
>>1.0 Rhodesian Ridgeback (Hondo)
>>0.1 Spouse (WC)
>>0.0.8 hatchling ball pythons
-----
Chris Law
U.A.P.P.E.A.L. (Uniting a Proactive Primate and Exotic Animal League)
Herpetoculture Element Representative

n/p
-----
1.1 Jungle Carpet Python
1.1 Ball Python
1.1 Corn Snake
0.1 Gray band Kingsnake
0.1 Desert Kingsnake
0.1 Pueblan Milksnake
1.0 Bullsnake
1.0 Rhodesian Ridgeback (Hondo)
0.1 Spouse (WC)
0.0.8 hatchling ball pythons

had NO IDEA why. I had handled him since he was a hatchling....once he hit 6 feet...he struck me out of no where....Surprised the crap outa me. And then he kept doing it. I ended up selling him to a friend (i had pet/breeder rats in the house and i figured that i smelled like them...) but even still he strikes at them (her b/f was hit in the face). It may very well have some thing to do with barometirc pressure, seeing as i kept him in a reptarium....there was not too much of a change in humidity when i took him out.
BTW...I had never fed him in his cage, he had never been sick and i had no other boas in the house, female or otherwise. some food for thought.
-----
"Brains for dinner, brains for lunch. Brains for breakfast, brains for brunch. Brains for every single meal; why can't we have some GUTS?"-Misfits

1.0 ball python- Azazel
1.0 red blood python-Hiss
1.0 peach phase thayeri-Sancho......MIA
0.1 creamsicle corn- Pandora
0.1 partial stripe ghost corn- Raven
1.0 Sunglow motley corn-Ernie
1.1 hognose- Pricilla and Odd
0.2 leos- Boji and Kodama
0.1 beardie- Indie
1.0 BTS- Griffon
0.1 Iggy- Sunny
0.0.1 crested gecko- Jubeh
0.1 leucistic texas ratsnake-Ojo
0.1 pacific parrolet- Mishka
1.1 cats- Cairo and Oberon
2.0 bettas
0.0.1 goldfish-fishwad
1.0 Husband (hes my favorite, but i dont let the 'kids' know that. )

I have seen a perfect pet start striking before, and it has puzzled me too. The first thing is not to get discouraged. I've seen pleasant snakes start attacking the various things around them, and then the next day, they're back to normal. My personal theory is that these attacks are caused by one of two things. One, the snake was somehow startled by something in the room, or the person holding it. Another thing is scent, if the person holding the snake or something in the room smells like an animal the snake might become defensive (to us that seems like aggression), or if whatever it is smells, smells like a prey item, the snake will go into a feeding response and therefore start trying to attack anything in sight. I've walked into the room with a rodent ready to feed to my 9 ft burm and out of nowhere the snake will start attacking the glass and even at me if I dont insert the rodent into the enclosure correctly.
Don't be too alarmed, because the snake will probably go back to its normal demenour, just be sure to pay attention to the snakes surroundings whenever you bring it out, or when it is around other people.