Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Thank you for your advice and comments on Elvis.
No one is really sure what his history is, or where he came from. He has been passed from home to home quite a bit.
The guy that had him before Dave (the b/f) used to poke at Elvis with an electrified cattle prod to get him to do what he wanted him to do...I'm guessing that meant to move out of his owners way.

Elvis does not have that ridge between his eyes at all, which is why we came to the conclusion that he is not a spectacled caiman.
Is there any other way to tell for sure what he is? His short, upturned, snout was a real stumper for us.

Also, could I get some examples of specific meal plans for your caimans, if you wouldn't mind.
When you say to feed whole animals, am I to assume you mean dead animals? I'm hoping so, but I'm honestly not sure. I know feeding live to snakes and such can prove to be quite dangerous for the snake...should I assume it might be the same for a captive caiman?
Do any of you provide live fish for exercise or entertainment purposes? I know he shouldn't be fed entirely goldfish as a food source, but we (well...I) thought he might enjoy catching them on his own. We put three crayfish in with him as well, and I haven't seen them since yesterday. I don't know if they are really well camoflaged, or if he ate them.
Anyway, I'd be very interested in knowing exactly what sort of things you feed your caimans, and on what sort of a schedule. I have looked into the Mazuri diet, and it appears that there is only one supplier in Ontario. I have emailed them enquiring if they carry the gator version of the diet, as it is not listed with the other varieties they sell. In the meantime, I'd like to get Elvis on the right track as far as his diet goes.
Will he run into any trouble if we make a sudden change in what he is fed?
Also, he can be verrrry finicky and difficult to feed. How do you feed your caimans? Do you just put the food in the cage and leave it for them to eat when they feel like it, or do you wiggle it around, or ...? And, also, how long do you leave uneaten food in the cage? Do your caimans tend to eat on the dry portion of their cage, or in the water?

Thanks for your patience with my never ending questions, everyone. I really appreciate your help in making Elvis comfortable in our home.
(I just want to clarify, that even though Dave has had Elvis for a number of years, he did not have access to the internet for most of that time. Elvis' care prior to this has been based on what previous owners have told us, and the bare basics of written material we could get our hands on prior to internet access...so not much help in other words)

More of Elvis:
Here he is on moving day, being transferred to his container to be transported to his new home....mine.
He looks thrilled, don't you think?

Elvis waiting for us to drain his tank, and move it and the cage. We let him wait for us in an empty bedroom while we got everything ready to move.

Seconds before being loaded into his rubbermaid container for the journey to his new home.

-----
Kim

>>The guy that had him before Dave (the b/f) used to poke at Elvis with an electrified cattle prod to get him to do what he wanted him to do...I'm guessing that meant to move out of his owners way.

The guy deserves to be shot....Twice.
>>
>>Elvis does not have that ridge between his eyes at all, which is why we came to the conclusion that he is not a spectacled caiman.

He certainly isn't a dwarf. I would be aiming for one of the variations of the spectacled.

>>
>>Also, could I get some examples of specific meal plans for your caimans, if you wouldn't mind.
>>When you say to feed whole animals, am I to assume you mean dead animals?

That's correct.

I'm hoping so, but I'm honestly not sure. I know feeding live to snakes and such can prove to be quite dangerous for the snake...should I assume it might be the same for a captive caiman?

Absolutely, you can find prekilled and frozen mice at reptile shows and you can also order them online at like rodentpro.com.

>>Do any of you provide live fish for exercise or entertainment purposes?

I used to feed guppies as an extra treat to my young alligator. Dont' do goldfish as they hold absolutely no nutritional value.

We put three crayfish in with him as well, and I haven't seen them since yesterday. I don't know if they are really well camoflaged, or if he ate them.

He probably ate them, but the thing I would be concerned about is parasites that will be inside live fish and crawfish. It is best to feed frozen/thawed animals.

>>Anyway, I'd be very interested in knowing exactly what sort of things you feed your caimans, and on what sort of a schedule.

Feeding schedules are going to be specific to the animal. Not all animals will want to eat multiple times in a week (although most will). Usually 2-3 times weekly is perfect, but it will ultimately be decided by how large the previous meal was.

I have looked into the Mazuri diet, and it appears that there is only one supplier in Ontario. I have emailed them enquiring if they carry the gator version of the diet, as it is not listed with the other varieties they sell.

The gator diet is the same thing as the crocodilian diet. The term "Crocodilian" consists of Alligators, Caiman, and crocodiles. The diet is sufficient for all.

In the meantime, I'd like to get Elvis on the right track as far as his diet goes.
>>Will he run into any trouble if we make a sudden change in what he is fed?

No not really. The only thing you might have trouble with is just getting him to eat something different from what he is used to eating.

>>Also, he can be verrrry finicky and difficult to feed. How do you feed your caimans? Do you just put the food in the cage and leave it for them to eat when they feel like it, or do you wiggle it around, or ...?

I walk to the side of the enclosure, they come to the edge of the enclosure, and I give them their food. They eat.

And, also, how long do you leave uneaten food in the cage? Do your caimans tend to eat on the dry portion of their cage, or in the water?

Never had that problem, it was gone before blinked my eyes most of the time.

>>
>>Thanks for your patience with my never ending questions, everyone. I really appreciate your help in making Elvis comfortable in our home.

Ask as many questions as you want. If you read through this forum you will see that I do plenty of it!

>>(I just want to clarify, that even though Dave has had Elvis for a number of years, he did not have access to the internet for most of that time. Elvis' care prior to this has been based on what previous owners have told us, and the bare basics of written material we could get our hands on prior to internet access...so not much help in other words)

Understandable, although I feel that further research should have been done by other means, at least you are working on correcting it now. In the end, I am sure Elvis will be much happier.

>>
>>More of Elvis:
>>Here he is on moving day, being transferred to his container to be transported to his new home....mine.
>>He looks thrilled, don't you think?
>>
>>
>>Elvis waiting for us to drain his tank, and move it and the cage. We let him wait for us in an empty bedroom while we got everything ready to move.
>>
>>
>>Seconds before being loaded into his rubbermaid container for the journey to his new home.

I dont see the pictures

Hope this helps,

chris
-----
Chris Law
U.A.P.P.E.A.L. (Uniting a Proactive Primate and Exotic Animal League)
Herpetoculture Element Representative

>>>>The guy that had him before Dave (the b/f) used to poke at Elvis with an electrified cattle prod to get him to do what he wanted him to do...I'm guessing that meant to move out of his owners way.
>>
>>The guy deserves to be shot....Twice.
>>>>
>>>>Elvis does not have that ridge between his eyes at all, which is why we came to the conclusion that he is not a spectacled caiman.
>>
>>He certainly isn't a dwarf. I would be aiming for one of the variations of the spectacled.
>>
>>>>
>>>>Also, could I get some examples of specific meal plans for your caimans, if you wouldn't mind.
>>>>When you say to feed whole animals, am I to assume you mean dead animals?
>>
>>That's correct.
>>
>> I'm hoping so, but I'm honestly not sure. I know feeding live to snakes and such can prove to be quite dangerous for the snake...should I assume it might be the same for a captive caiman?
>>
>>Absolutely, you can find prekilled and frozen mice at reptile shows and you can also order them online at like rodentpro.com.
>>
>>>>Do any of you provide live fish for exercise or entertainment purposes?
>>
>>I used to feed guppies as an extra treat to my young alligator. Dont' do goldfish as they hold absolutely no nutritional value.
>>
>> We put three crayfish in with him as well, and I haven't seen them since yesterday. I don't know if they are really well camoflaged, or if he ate them.
>>
>>He probably ate them, but the thing I would be concerned about is parasites that will be inside live fish and crawfish. It is best to feed frozen/thawed animals.
>>
>>>>Anyway, I'd be very interested in knowing exactly what sort of things you feed your caimans, and on what sort of a schedule.
>>
>>Feeding schedules are going to be specific to the animal. Not all animals will want to eat multiple times in a week (although most will). Usually 2-3 times weekly is perfect, but it will ultimately be decided by how large the previous meal was.
>>
>> I have looked into the Mazuri diet, and it appears that there is only one supplier in Ontario. I have emailed them enquiring if they carry the gator version of the diet, as it is not listed with the other varieties they sell.
>>
>>The gator diet is the same thing as the crocodilian diet. The term "Crocodilian" consists of Alligators, Caiman, and crocodiles. The diet is sufficient for all.
>>
>> In the meantime, I'd like to get Elvis on the right track as far as his diet goes.
>>>>Will he run into any trouble if we make a sudden change in what he is fed?
>>
>>No not really. The only thing you might have trouble with is just getting him to eat something different from what he is used to eating.
>>
>>>>Also, he can be verrrry finicky and difficult to feed. How do you feed your caimans? Do you just put the food in the cage and leave it for them to eat when they feel like it, or do you wiggle it around, or ...?
>>
>>I walk to the side of the enclosure, they come to the edge of the enclosure, and I give them their food. They eat.
>>
>> And, also, how long do you leave uneaten food in the cage? Do your caimans tend to eat on the dry portion of their cage, or in the water?
>>
>>Never had that problem, it was gone before blinked my eyes most of the time.
>>
>>>>
>>>>Thanks for your patience with my never ending questions, everyone. I really appreciate your help in making Elvis comfortable in our home.
>>
>>Ask as many questions as you want. If you read through this forum you will see that I do plenty of it!
>>
>>>>(I just want to clarify, that even though Dave has had Elvis for a number of years, he did not have access to the internet for most of that time. Elvis' care prior to this has been based on what previous owners have told us, and the bare basics of written material we could get our hands on prior to internet access...so not much help in other words)
>>
>>Understandable, although I feel that further research should have been done by other means, at least you are working on correcting it now. In the end, I am sure Elvis will be much happier.
>>
>>>>
>>>>More of Elvis:
>>>>Here he is on moving day, being transferred to his container to be transported to his new home....mine.
>>>>He looks thrilled, don't you think?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Elvis waiting for us to drain his tank, and move it and the cage. We let him wait for us in an empty bedroom while we got everything ready to move.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Seconds before being loaded into his rubbermaid container for the journey to his new home.
>>
>>
>>I dont see the pictures
>>
>>Hope this helps,
>>
>>chris
>>-----
>>Chris Law
>>U.A.P.P.E.A.L. (Uniting a Proactive Primate and Exotic Animal League)
>>Herpetoculture Element Representative
-----
Chris Law
U.A.P.P.E.A.L. (Uniting a Proactive Primate and Exotic Animal League)
Herpetoculture Element Representative

I see the pics fine, I just didn't look far down enough Sorry.
-----
Chris Law
U.A.P.P.E.A.L. (Uniting a Proactive Primate and Exotic Animal League)
Herpetoculture Element Representative

we went today and bought Elvis some frozen mice. So far he has shown no interest in them.
the crayfish are definately gone though. Every goldfish is alive and accounted for. I have taken a liking to two of them so they have been moved out of Elvis' pond and into a cozy apartment of their own.

The supplier I contacted for the Mazuri diet doesn't sell any of the crocdilian diet at all. I'm hoping they can order it in for me though, so we can give it a try.

How often do you dust the food for your guys? Do you use calcium powder alone, or with D3, or just a multivitamin?
-----
Kim

hi...

about the food... I feed my crocs with frozzen mice and a mix of grownded chicken and meat powdered with calcium and vitamins...

not all th crocs are good eaters, my gators are eating machines as almost all gators are, like Chris ones; the morelet is regular, some times he just doesn´t eat but sometimes he eats like a devil; the dwarf caiman doesn´t eat if I´m present, I just leave some food over a rock and he comes out of his cave to get it and take it into the water... feed him 3 or 4 times a week

I leave the food just one nigth, if the dwarf doesn´t eat it, take it out in the morning

I do provide live fish for exercise or entertainment purposes, they love to swim trying to catch them... but they are not for feeding, just for fun, and they also ear mosquito larvae

hope can help

good look

Rick

It's not that you can't feed some goldfish to them for behavioral enrichment, just that fish with thiaminase should be used in minimal quantities. Freezing fish increases the thiaminase concentration.

As for the orbital ridge, it seems to me that I see one as illustrated in the following photograph. I have to admit that I've never seen one with such a strange head shape.

Bill, but with its lack of teeth, who knows what other bone structure irregularities it has gone thru due to bad health.

>>It's not that you can't feed some goldfish to them for behavioral enrichment, just that fish with thiaminase should be used in minimal quantities. Freezing fish increases the thiaminase concentration.
>>
>>As for the orbital ridge, it seems to me that I see one as illustrated in the following photograph. I have to admit that I've never seen one with such a strange head shape.
>>
>>

Aside from Elvis' oddly shaped head, he does not exhibit any other bone irregularities that are noticeable. At least nothing that is glaringly obvious to me anyway. I've seen other retiles with MBD, and Elvis doesn't seem to have the rounded, rubbery, extremities that I've seen. Mind you though, Elvis is the first and only caiman I've had any ongoing "relationship" with, so maybe I'm missing something.

He can carry himself easily on his legs. He moves well, and quickly, on dry land holding himself up off the ground.

He has never exhibited any signs of respiratory illness and has always eaten well (meaning regularly, and good quantities)during his time with Dave.

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by him being in poor health.
Hopefully it's not too late for us to correct previous dietary mistakes.
-----
Kim

the image you were posting is not showing up. Do you have the link to it, as I'd love to see it.

Do you think Elvis' head is shaped like that from being kept in a too small environment when he was little maybe?
Or perhaps it's just a variation of normal?

Today when I was watching him while he was cruising around underwater, I noticed what may be a very small ridge running straight across between his eyes. It's not noticable when he's out of the water though.

His original owner has long since disappeared, so there is no asking him about it, and none of the people whose hands he's passed through since then would know. They just refer to him as a "gator".

Thanks for your help and advice (everyone!) I really appreciate it.
-----
Kim