Reptile & Amphibian Forums

....The litter of Brazilian Rainbows that was born on the 11th of September had 15 healthy babies. 4 of them are darker than normal. 4 divided by 15 equals .266 Say, that is an interesting number. There are two babies that are very dark and two others that are not quite this dark. All four of the dark ones are females. The rest of the litter is normal looking. The golden color inside the circular markings on the back has me puzzled. If these snakes were anerythristic I think they would not have that color. The golden color must be a dark pigment mixed with a lighter orangish tint. The two PICs of the snake in hand are the same snake and the PIC of two snakes side by side in boxes is the same dark snake and a normal colored baby. Any opinions on this????
Jeff

I think you should keep them "Just to protect the market" LOL

Seriously, the 4/15 could be a statistically significant number, when breeding hets for a recessive trait, 1/4 would express that trait. Does that mean you have produced a new recessive trait - no. Only way to prove it out would be to raise the babies up and cross breed them. Except, they were all females. If this were a recessive trait then the rest of the litter would each be 67% het. You could keep 3.3 or 4.4 and then breed those back together in a few years. I have produced a few of those darker type babies myself. Question, the parents, do you know the lineage of them? Related? Have you bred them together before? If so what was the outcome?
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Thanks,

Dave "Rainbows-R-Us"

0.1 Wife
0.2 kids
4.12.100 Brazilian Rainbow Boa
1.1 Ball python
0.1 BCI "Elvira" normal from 1989
1.0 BCI albino / het-anery
0.1 BCI Hypo / het-albino
0.1 BCI Anery / het-albino
0.1 BCI Hypo (possible super)
1.0 BCI albino het stripe
1.0 BCI salmon hypo
0.1 BCI ghost

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Dave,
...That 4 out of the 15 was why I was thinking that there may be something going on with this litter. And also that they are very different than their siblings. The mother of this litter is a very dark burgundy color. I got her in trade and she was reported to be from Dallas Zoo bloodlines. None of the males that were with her this year are related to her and none of them are dark. I have examined two different strains of BRBs that are supposed to be anerythristic and I cannot remember exactly what they looked like. I do remember that one bloodline looked like a charcoal color on the sides somewhat like these snakes but had a greyer look to the pattern inside the circular back markings. I had hoped that someone would see this post who has anerythristic BRBs and would post a PIC of them. I really do not know what if any genetic anomaly they may have. It looks like I will just have to raise these up and see how they turn out. That is unless some mutant morph worshipping __________ thinks they are worth a lot of money )
Jeff

>>I think you should keep them "Just to protect the market" LOL
>>
>>Seriously, the 4/15 could be a statistically significant number, when breeding hets for a recessive trait, 1/4 would express that trait. Does that mean you have produced a new recessive trait - no. Only way to prove it out would be to raise the babies up and cross breed them. Except, they were all females. If this were a recessive trait then the rest of the litter would each be 67% het. You could keep 3.3 or 4.4 and then breed those back together in a few years. I have produced a few of those darker type babies myself. Question, the parents, do you know the lineage of them? Related? Have you bred them together before? If so what was the outcome?
>>-----
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Dave "Rainbows-R-Us"
>>
>>
>>0.1 Wife
>>0.2 kids
>>4.12.100 Brazilian Rainbow Boa
>>1.1 Ball python
>>0.1 BCI "Elvira" normal from 1989
>>1.0 BCI albino / het-anery
>>0.1 BCI Hypo / het-albino
>>0.1 BCI Anery / het-albino
>>0.1 BCI Hypo (possible super)
>>1.0 BCI albino het stripe
>>1.0 BCI salmon hypo
>>0.1 BCI ghost
>>
>>lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

>>Dave,
>>...That 4 out of the 15 was why I was thinking that there may be something going on with this litter. And also that they are very different than their siblings. The mother of this litter is a very dark burgundy color. I got her in trade and she was reported to be from Dallas Zoo bloodlines. None of the males that were with her this year are related to her and none of them are dark. I have examined two different strains of BRBs that are supposed to be anerythristic and I cannot remember exactly what they looked like. I do remember that one bloodline looked like a charcoal color on the sides somewhat like these snakes but had a greyer look to the pattern inside the circular back markings. I had hoped that someone would see this post who has anerythristic BRBs and would post a PIC of them. I really do not know what if any genetic anomaly they may have. It looks like I will just have to raise these up and see how they turn out. That is unless some mutant morph worshipping __________ thinks they are worth a lot of money )
>>Jeff
>>
>>>>I think you should keep them "Just to protect the market" LOL
>>>>
>>>>Seriously, the 4/15 could be a statistically significant number, when breeding hets for a recessive trait, 1/4 would express that trait. Does that mean you have produced a new recessive trait - no. Only way to prove it out would be to raise the babies up and cross breed them. Except, they were all females. If this were a recessive trait then the rest of the litter would each be 67% het. You could keep 3.3 or 4.4 and then breed those back together in a few years. I have produced a few of those darker type babies myself. Question, the parents, do you know the lineage of them? Related? Have you bred them together before? If so what was the outcome?
>>>>-----
>>>>Thanks,
>>>>
>>>>Dave "Rainbows-R-Us"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>0.1 Wife
>>>>0.2 kids
>>>>4.12.100 Brazilian Rainbow Boa
>>>>1.1 Ball python
>>>>0.1 BCI "Elvira" normal from 1989
>>>>1.0 BCI albino / het-anery
>>>>0.1 BCI Hypo / het-albino
>>>>0.1 BCI Anery / het-albino
>>>>0.1 BCI Hypo (possible super)
>>>>1.0 BCI albino het stripe
>>>>1.0 BCI salmon hypo
>>>>0.1 BCI ghost
>>>>
>>>>lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

IMO, with very limited knowledge, I don't think the darker babies look even remotely anery at all. Keep in mind that all I have seen are public internet pictures. I do like the contrast of colors they have and am curious as to how they change or not change within the next few sheds. I did not answer with my opinion sooner because I wasn't sure what it was. Really all I have are more questions. When their sides are light are they the same color or is it diluted with a more pronounced base color? I am guessing that only red pigment could produce such a dark color. Any possibilty that the actuall time of year or temps could produce a more dramatic color on a few from a litter that contains variation, or that a second male was involved?

>>....The litter of Brazilian Rainbows that was born on the 11th of September had 15 healthy babies. 4 of them are darker than normal. 4 divided by 15 equals .266 Say, that is an interesting number. There are two babies that are very dark and two others that are not quite this dark. All four of the dark ones are females. The rest of the litter is normal looking. The golden color inside the circular markings on the back has me puzzled. If these snakes were anerythristic I think they would not have that color. The golden color must be a dark pigment mixed with a lighter orangish tint. The two PICs of the snake in hand are the same snake and the PIC of two snakes side by side in boxes is the same dark snake and a normal colored baby. Any opinions on this????
>>Jeff
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>

Linda,
...So far I have not seen them lighten up their sides any at night. I really am not sure what these are, if anything and what may have caused the dark color. Mom is dark burgundy colored but all the possible dads and all the other babies in the litter are light colored. I don't think this dark color will turn out anything like the mother's dark burgundy color. The one pattern variation we often associate with gestational temperature differences is striping.
Jeff

>>IMO, with very limited knowledge, I don't think the darker babies look even remotely anery at all. Keep in mind that all I have seen are public internet pictures. I do like the contrast of colors they have and am curious as to how they change or not change within the next few sheds. I did not answer with my opinion sooner because I wasn't sure what it was. Really all I have are more questions. When their sides are light are they the same color or is it diluted with a more pronounced base color? I am guessing that only red pigment could produce such a dark color. Any possibilty that the actuall time of year or temps could produce a more dramatic color on a few from a litter that contains variation, or that a second male was involved?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>>>....The litter of Brazilian Rainbows that was born on the 11th of September had 15 healthy babies. 4 of them are darker than normal. 4 divided by 15 equals .266 Say, that is an interesting number. There are two babies that are very dark and two others that are not quite this dark. All four of the dark ones are females. The rest of the litter is normal looking. The golden color inside the circular markings on the back has me puzzled. If these snakes were anerythristic I think they would not have that color. The golden color must be a dark pigment mixed with a lighter orangish tint. The two PICs of the snake in hand are the same snake and the PIC of two snakes side by side in boxes is the same dark snake and a normal colored baby. Any opinions on this????
>>>>Jeff
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>

I have a female that I bought from Frank Fusaro in 03 that had a pale, darker sub-q like that. At certain times her sides actually looked variable shades of gray with a lavender undertone. She has since turned very red.

Chris O
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www.chrisolsonreptiles.com
Naked I see the camp of those who desire nothing

I found a couple of pics of her.
Neonate

This is her at about 18 months....I don't have anything more recent.

Not quite the same as what you have there....it just reminded me of this girl....

Chris O
-----
www.chrisolsonreptiles.com
Naked I see the camp of those who desire nothing

Hey Jeff,

That's a stunning animal. In fact, whenever I'mm looking over my clutches, I always keep ones like that as holdbacks. Not because I think they are going to be the next big morph, but because my eyes are really drawn to that high contrast. I guess we could call it a morph if we wanted to. I think it will turn into an animal like the one I have pictured here. I don't have any baby pictures of him but he was born with a very similar "high contrast" pattern . To some degree, he still has it. It's like your TGIF post a few weeks ago. There is quite a bit of diversity if we pay attention. If I had to guess, I would say that is not anerythristic. Although, I haven't seen enough of them as babies to be sure. I'd hold on to at least one to see what it turns into.

Mike