Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Greetings all, im brand new here to the kingsnake forum network. my name is Kelsey and i will be living in a dorm house next fall. i have raised reptiles since i can remember and have a great deal of experience with them. i wish to purchase a monitor lizard to have as the house pet. we had a house hampster so why not? i have been considering a nile or sav. monitor hatchling. i want it practically fresh out of the egg so it is exposed to me from the start. a common choice i know, but i cant help my facination and enthusiasm. i want it practically fresh out of the egg so it is exposed to me from the start. the dorm house i will be living in recieves alot of visitors, so the young monitor would have constant exposure to people. ive seen many other lizards incl. iguanas become very mellow with this amount of exposure to humans. i was wondering if it would also hold true for a nile or sav. i heard owners of niles report how tame they become over time with constant handling. Rules prevent us from having loud, rambunctious parties in the dorm house (thats what we have frats for) so teh lizard would not be subjected to that or very loud music or smoking. space is no problem, for i know these things grow big. having much experience with 6ft snakes and iguanas, im prepared for the cage req'mnts. I am a rising senior so the monitor and myselft would only be in the dorm for a year. i would really love some feedback from very experienced nile or sav. owners.
much thanks!
Kelsey

btw, i am an artist, and will post samples of my reptilian art soon, also can be found on my webiste. (read disclaimer on my site before viewing art)

The animal will not do well constantly being messed with, gawked at, handled, or anything like that for very long. Especially a hatchling. Monitors are burrowers and if you provide the proper enclosure you probably won't see it any way. You have chosen from one extreme temperment to another in you choice of monitors. Savannahs are normally calm but can get really cranky from time to time, Niles on the other hand are always cranky. Very rarely do niles ever calm down. I can assure you that in the environment that you are going to have for this animal to live in you should reconsider gettting a monitor. Niles get between 6-8 feet long, Savs 3-4 feet. You will need a cage at least 6'x8'x6' for the Nile and 7'x4'x4' for the Sav. Can you provide this? They eat rodents as prey. Monitors are NOTHING like an Iguana!!!!!! Please dont put them in the same catagory. Iggies are mainly veggy eats, monitors only eat meat. Mice, chicken peeps, roaches, crickets, and so forth and so on.
What other reptile have you owned? From the sound of it you seem like a snake person, but I could be wrong.
The best thing I can tell you or any newbie is READ. Read caresheets and books and then make your decision. If you can do what it says on the sheets then make the decision about getting the monitor. Pro Exotics has a great monitor care sheet.
Good luck!
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Christine :>~

First of all, i am only going to be there for LESS THAN ONE YEAR. second of all, im very familiar with their diet and experienced with carnivorous reptiles. i have had many boas in the avg of 9feet. my last iguana was 6ft. im also well read in the temperament difference b/t sav.s and niles. it makes not diff. to me. i dont plan to let the thing roam the house freely or let just anyone stick their hand in the cage. also, i said space is not prob. and by no sense am i a REPTILE NEWBIE. i have had many things BUT monitors. i have done my homework. i am asking about the personal experiences of monitor owners who have kept them in cages where strangers would walk by now and then.

have u thought about maybe looking into uromastyx instead??? They are much easier to house and care for,especially for that first year in a dorm, and for the most part are pretty friendly. If you really want something big, egyptian uros get up to like 3' or so. i have to back up everybody else here with saying a big monitor is just not a good idea until you are really settled, they can grow really fast. if you're really stuck on monitors, i suppose you could look into the dwarf species. you won't come across one for $10 like a nile or sav at a reptile show,but they'd be much more suitable companions in this sort of situation.
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1.2 Mali Uromastyx (Ricky, Quinn, Anna)
1.1 Yellow Ackies (Eddie, Roxie)
1.0 Timor (Zealot)

Emily
www.egomantra.com/npoh

The biggest part being you say monitors eat only meat???
Sorry but if you think that you need to do more research yourself.

I do agree that this person needs to do some reasearch themselves and myself too LOL

If he can provide for the monitor in question and does research. I see no harm with him getting it and having it at the dorm for a years time. Just be sure you can provide for it and meet it's needs. Interacting with it or having your friends interact with it is fine. Just be sure to not pester it and become a bother to the poor thing.

Thank you Jody! what kind of animals do you keep btw?
~Kelsey
btw,i know "kelsey" is a sometimes guy's name, but I'm Female :]

I didn't do anything but disagree.

Not sure if you are trying to imply this or not but just incase. My name is Jody (which can be a girls name but then is typically spelled different) but I am a guy.

Anyways I would type out all of what I keep but it is easier to say I have over 70 reptiles alone not counting the fuzzy critters, winged, or finned variety. I used to work at a zoo but now have my own zoo and have geared to working with mainly reptiles.

Ok then I'll put it like this.

In the eight years of keeping snakes and monitors not one of my monitors has ever eaten anything other than a rodent, chicken or bugs. Tegus eat both meat and veggies from what I've heard but I personally have never kept a Tegu. I always have thought that a monitor was a carnivior. Is this wrong? Do they eat plants in the wild? I have just read and seen them eat only animal prey. Please enlighten me on this.

All I said was that if he can provide proper care then consider getting one. But he never said anything about the monitor not being handled or anything like that other than by him. A lot of handling can really sress a hatchling monitor of any species. Stress will kill a hatchling monitor. That is all I was saying.
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Christine :>~

Varanus olivaceus and Varanus mabitang both are fruit eaters. Also Varanus albigularis has been known to eat bananas in the wild. I am not certain but I also believe bosc monitors eat bananas as well.

I am sure others can add more to this if need be with some field research or do some research yourself and you can find it. The information is out there.

But you are right in saying they will not hunt down a carrot or head of lettuce if thats what you mean by veggies.

Jody you cracked me up!!! Actually the mental picture of a monitor hunting a veggy was funny.

Thanks for all the info I'll have to check that out. Ya learn something new everyday. But that is what I love about monitors. There is always new things to learn.

The picture is of my female Finschi. He dinner oddly came back to life (the shop swore they killed it) and decided to have a sleep on her in her feeding tub. I snapped the pic and then killed the mouse, again. For sure this time. She gulped it down after that.
Thanks again Jody!

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Christine :>~

Yeah wouldn't take much to sneak up on a head of lettuce LOL

Nice looking finschi's you got. Hope all works out well for you with them. Oh and probly not a good idea to try and feed them carrots stick with the mice and chicks sorta stuff.

Hi Jody,

I've done the literature research for you already - and Mamadou Cisse did the field research back in early 1970's when she wrote her paper on V. exanthematicus eating bananas. Ive seen my own captives doing that too, as well eating rose petals out of the yard....and V. albigularis eating strawberries. They will eat them, and probably give them a good source of potassium and other minerals they may not get elsewhere in their dietary menu.

cheers,
mbayless

n/p

Jody you cracked me up!!! Actually the mental picture of a monitor hunting a veggy was funny.

Thanks for all the info I'll have to check that out. Ya learn something new everyday. But that is what I love about monitors. There is always new things to learn.

The picture is of my female Finschi. He dinner oddly came back to life (the shop swore they killed it) and decided to have a sleep on her in her feeding tub. I snapped the pic and then killed the mouse, again. For sure this time. She gulped it down after that.
Thanks again Jody!

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Christine :>~

at least all the mouse tried to do was sleep... it's kind of cute... in a food sort of way...
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1.2 Mali Uromastyx (Ricky, Quinn, Anna)
1.1 Yellow Ackies (Eddie, Roxie)
1.0 Timor (Zealot)

Emily
www.egomantra.com/npoh

I think you got that a little off. Bananas are not native to Africa, also, even if they were, they do not grow in the same habitats that those monitors live in. So, if your saying bananas are a natural food, I would disagree. Unless there is arid lands type. hahahahahahahaha. Of course, in agricultural areas I am sure there are bananas.

On the other hand, monitors are non specialized and eat almost anything. F

If your reffering to nile monitors I never said they eat bananas, but there are publications of blackthroats and whitethroats eating bananas in the wild. I believe M. Bayless was the one I read it from first. But then again maybe it was a non native banana tree it ate it from (i.e. someones back yard or a crop field) rather then a wild tree growing the bush.

Non the less my point was just that you cannot say monitors are 100% meat eaters as they eat just about anything except for pop cans, sticks, etc. LOL

are they the type of banana that grows over in africa? as I have never been there only done research online I am not certain but I really did think there were wild banana trees of some sort over there.

So Mr. so and so from Africa if your out there please let me know the skinny on the banana tree's in Africa are they a non native plant just growing out in the bush or are they native or are they just growing in the crop fields at some agriculture areas? inquiring minds want to know.

first of all, im FEMALE. i appreciate your concern for my future monitor and input but please dont think i want to turn my dorm into a petting zoo. i want what is best for my animals. stress will kill ANY kind of hatchling. that is common sense and i would never allow such a thing to happen.
as soon as you find the answere to the "percent veggie" part of nile monitor diet, you post it. im curious as to what people or "experts" commonly think this is "supposedly."

Slip of the tongue. I'm still out of sorts.
Good luck in your venture and I hope all goes well.
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Christine :>~

Percents apply to the grays monitor.

Actually, iguanas and monitors are a lot alike. They both have the potential to get large (at least niles do). They both have the potential to be nasty and do major, serious damage. They both have require a lot of care. They require lots of space. They are all intelligent (let's face it, monitor people are biased towards monitors and iggy people are biased toward iggies. I keep a variety of monitors and several iggies, and they are all intelligent animals). Granted iguanas eat plants and monitors eat meat. Trust me though, veggies under heat lamps or dumped into water and iguana feces can smell as bad as a decomposing rat or monitor feces. It isn't pleasant. They are more alike than they are different.

In fact, iguanas and monitors probably belong in the same category. They are treated as cheap and disposable animals. In reality, they require the same level of commitment and care which is frequently higher than the level of care given to them.

I am also in college and have a nile, although i have an appartment. You should be fine with having a nile or sav, as long as it either A.) has plenty of dirt to make burrows in and hide from your constant visitors(primium way to go). or B.) has plenty of artificial hide spots provided by you with varying temperatures. As long as they can get out of the sight of you, you should be fine. Also, if you have it in the tight confines of a dorm, for less than a year, 9 months in this case, you wont need to have the max size cage, i dont think. If you can go from an 8 inch hatchling nile, to a 6 ft monster in 9 months, your my hero. Especially if its your first monitor.

I would like to point out that 99.999999999% of the monitors in question(sav's and niles) are wild caught. This makes the right out of the egg scinario a little more difficult, but you can get a couple week old one no problem.

If you really want an out of egg experiance, your going to have to go to a breeder, and then maybe you might wanna go with a smaller monitor such as an ackie. Just a thought.

I have had no problems with my nile, and i tend to have alot of people around. HOLY CRAP, i have had my nile for one year today, wow!!!! I didnt realize till i thought about it.

Anyway, good luck with whatever you do, but as long as you do your research, supply the needed elements(temps,food,hides, etc.) you will be fine.

Truth

A help indeed! question: supposing i obtained my monitor, provided the appropriate hiding spots, all the essential caging req'mnts, etc, would there be a point in time or age where the animal would no longer seek shelter when i have guests? have you noticed this in your animal? also, i know that many of my animals in the past were able to distinguish me from my family members or strangers, do you notice this in your nile? also, could you recomend any reputalbe breeders of niles? thanks so much!
~ Kelsey

you think your monitor would hide when it sees your guests? Are they ugly or something LOL

Truthfully monitors do burrow and hide, but they are not always down hiding. Even my shyer monitors that tend to hide more then others are out often doing something. Some of my monitors are out doing something all the time. Just wondering where you got the notion they will hide never to be seen again?

I have niles and have bred them I must say they do not hide all the time and typically when they see people they come out to see what is up, or to see if they might have some food.

thats not the notion i got. im simply curious about behavior patterns/ personality diff's among animals b/t various owners.

individuals may hide and not want to be seen or young ones. Also if you have an import then it will hide and remain hidden. But you must understand why they are hiding rather then to simply say they all hide or will stay hidden.

which is why i only want something captive breed and hand raised, not wild caught. i prefer to obtain my animals from only from experienced breeders who know thier animals very well, both in husbandry and behavior. another reason for joining this site... i am networking and researching info on the best breeders in my area, plus personal experiences before i get this animal. i do this anytime i get a new animal. something more people should do.

you may find it hard to find true captive born and bred niles and savs. Good luck with your search.

Hi Kelsey,

Good luck w/college and dorm life. You do not mention about a terraria/enclosure for your monitor. Were you thinking of letting it roam the dorm room? Some years ago, a fellow varanophile was stationed on a U.S. nuclear Attack Submarine, and asked me if the lizard (V. exanthematicus) would be OK on a submarine for long duration? I told him to first ask his NCO, then Captain for permission, and if they said OK, get back to me; His Captain said No. Anyways, its probably not a good idea as intentions are good, time becomes short, and husbandry needs are daily...and if your floor-supervisor (=captain) says no, then what? Dispose of him at nearest pet shop or herp society? How would you feel then? Have a good time in college, draw till your pencilled out...you know there is that nile monitor project in Florida to eradicate them down there in Cape Coral Florida - maybe you can do some illustrations for them??
Good Luck,
mbayless

I have raised both niles and savannahs for quite some time.

First, I am not entirely sure you should go with any potentially large reptile if it is going to be in a commons area. All it takes is for one housemate (or their frequently common sense challenged guests) to do something rather silly or stupid (potentially while intoxicated) and you have a big problem on your hands and/or a dead animal. Also keep in mind that no amount of pre-incident lecturing or rule making is going to stop housemates from eventually doing something unwise. They may be good intentioned or just curious, but there is a high likelihood of someone doing something bad during a year. These are just the unfortunate realities I saw occur in almost 10 years of living on and near a college campus and group living arrangements.

If you are planning on keeping this animal in your (locked) room or you are willing to take a gamble on location, then maybe a monitor is a decent choice. Of the two you mentioned, you are better off with the savannah. A savannah is more likely to tolerate strangers and be more interactive with more people around than a nile. Niles tend to remain really skittish and defensive. Although there are some calmer niles out there, they are the exception to the tendency. A nile in a high traffic area with lots of strangers is probably not going to be very happy. A savannah is more likely to adjust. Keep in mind, none of them will handle harassment well.

One way to assist your monitor in adjusting is to position its cage in a place where it can see people coming from far away. This way it can decide what it wants to do before people are right in front of it. Positioning a hide spot so it can look out but also completely hide if it wants to. I made a wooden box type hide with an opening. The monitor would retreat into it watch out of the opening for a bit and when he decided he'd had enough he'd move a few inches over and was completely out of sight. This did wonders for his willingness to remain relaxed in front of people. He saw them coming and he moved near his box. When he had his fill, in he went. A similar setup did not help calm down the nile. Also, respect the hide box. Don't open the enclosure up and move his hides to show him off to people (this is where housemates can be a problem). He will come out when he wants to and he will probably spend most of his time not wanting to.

i was planning to have my monitor in my room. i can lock the door. also, i think having it in the common area would be bad for people who just dont like the site of lizards. i dont want ignorant strangers screaming when they see my pet. that used to happen with my snakes when i used to live with my parents several years ago. keeping it in my room will eliminate the careless housemate problem, or at least minimize the chance. thank goodness my room will be of impressive size. thank you for the advice! you have brought up some very important issues about housemates, that not only people in college should think about before aquiring a new pet.
~Kelsey

hello, i am in college and have many lizards. But can especially tell you about my ornate nile. If your dorm is big enough for a nile go for it, my ornate nile is 6 and 1/2 feet long weighing over 30 pounds.His cage is 9 feet long by 7 feet wide by 6 feet high, these arent small dimensions, he basically has his own room to live in my appartment. Is he a nice lizard? HELL NO, is he ever gunna be ? NEVER, but i have him because i love animals not because i wanted to hold him. You can try to tame him, but be carefull when these lizards are this size(and beleive me they grow quick!!!), because my lizard is the most powerfull animal i have ever tried to handleholdpick updeal with in my whole life. and about burrowing , my dirt is a foot and a half deep, my point bieng a cage this large, with this much dirt in it wieghs alot, so if your not on ground level i also woudlnt recommend this.And the last thing to remember is that your in college, and do you really wana spend $10-$40 dollars a week feeding him? I, on average, spend about 25-30 bucks on my nile a week feeding him, since i cant breed my own rats or get food from anywere but a pet store and the supermarket. So basically if you can do all this , go for it! youll have a great time with a nile, but if not it might be a hassle
Hope i helped
P.S This is a very old pic of him but i will send new ones soon!!

you have a beautiful monitor! wow! i love the blue tints! i stopped buying feeder animals from pet stores when one gave my snake a bad case of parasites, think ill go for teh packaged frozen variety. found a place online that sells em really inexpensive. thanks for your response! i would love to see more pics.
:]
~Kelsey

he's beautiful

have you thought about ordering thawed rodents in bulk? that's what we've started doing and it saves soooooo much moolah
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1.2 Mali Uromastyx (Ricky, Quinn, Anna)
1.1 Yellow Ackies (Eddie, Roxie)
1.0 Timor (Zealot)

Emily
www.egomantra.com/npoh

he's beautiful

have you thought about ordering frozen rodents in bulk? that's what we've started doing and it saves soooooo much moolah
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1.2 Mali Uromastyx (Ricky, Quinn, Anna)
1.1 Yellow Ackies (Eddie, Roxie)
1.0 Timor (Zealot)

Emily
www.egomantra.com/npoh

hello, i am in college and have many lizards. But can especially tell you about my ornate nile. If your dorm is big enough for a nile go for it, my ornate nile is 6 and 1/2 feet long weighing over 30 pounds.His cage is 9 feet long by 7 feet wide by 6 feet high, these arent small dimensions, he basically has his own room to live in my appartment. Is he a nice lizard? HELL NO, is he ever gunna be ? NEVER, but i have him because i love animals not because i wanted to hold him. You can try to tame him, but be carefull when these lizards are this size(and beleive me they grow quick!!!), because my lizard is the most powerfull animal i have ever tried to handleholdpick updeal with in my whole life. and about burrowing , my dirt is a foot and a half deep, my point bieng a cage this large, with this much dirt in it wieghs alot, so if your not on ground level i also woudlnt recommend this.And the last thing to remember is that your in college, and do you really wana spend $10-$40 dollars a week feeding him? I, on average, spend about 25-30 bucks on my nile a week feeding him, since i cant breed my own rats or get food from anywere but a pet store and the supermarket. So basically if you can do all this , go for it! youll have a great time with a nile, but if not it might be a hassle
Hope i helped
P.S This is a very old pic of him but i will send new ones soon!!

Get a Black Throated Savannah. They are awsome, always willing to eat, and easy to find CB. Pro-Exotics is a good source. Forget the Niles, and Boscs. Dont support the wc industry.

-Michelle

Hi traffic hi use areas not good for monitors. Are you ready to carry hundreds of lbs of dirt to build a cage to take apart in 9 months? In a dorm it doesnt seem like a good idea.

Hello there Kelsey,
Well I hope that I can make the groups point with out making it look like an attack at you or you experience with other reptiles.
I have just now also gotten into monitors and have kinda had to learn while still treeding water. I also did not home work and asked questions but there are always going to to be things that are not text book.
I will only agree with the mob to the extent that it will at best very difficult to provide a monitor with the needed time and care that one may need to become well adjusted to human life.
I understand you want a hatchling and that it is just for a year at max. but, Monitors grow lots faster then alot of other reptiles. My White throat grew from 16" to 36" in only like 5 months or maby even less. Which means a lot of feeding and cleaning and adjusting. Her cage size needs to be max from almost the start. And as far as people go They like there solitude. "Zima" will hide in her corner and tail whip if you are even on the other side of the cage changing water. THey just get a bad attitude some times. They do not like alot of people walking by.
I also have Iggies and Trust me there are only mild similarities in them, That of which end with the fact that they are both cold blooded.
Now to be on your side for a second. I think that if you do your reading and take all things as they should be taken ( as others oppinions and experience) then you have to make the ultimate decision on what you can do for this animal. You obviously care for its well being (or you would have done it with out asking for our .02 and fought some us so gallently.
So do what you can for the lil guy/girl and let us know how it goes for you.
P.S. I would go with a Savanah or a White Throat
David...

The academic school year is what Sept through what May or something minus part of december and jan for vacation? If you don't have a frat like dorm room which is big enough for the both of you and people aren't gonna be herassing the lizard then I don't see what the problem is. Just don't be stupid and get a croc or water, better yet I wouldn't get a nile either. BT/WT sav, ackies, something like that

Hello.
I think its a great idea. IF you get something other than a nile.
The pros are, monitors are hardy, and very resilient. They are intelligent, and will quickly learn you will not hurt them. Having some stimulus in the form of outings, and some new faces once in a while will help them adjust. The key is moderation. Being kind and gentle on your part will result in a great pet, IMO. I have come to think they are tough buggers, who thrive on change.
I think the student situation will be ideal. You will be very busy, and studying (you'd better!) most of the time. This means you will be spending a lot of time near the monitor, without bugging it. Letting them see you lots, without the physical stuff, will teach the monitor you are benign and harmless. By the time the school year is done, you should have a well-adjusted animal. They get calmer with maturity.
They also are not terribly hard to take care of. They can go long periods without food, and will not 'miss' you if you have to leave for the weekend.

I think savs are a nice size, 3-4 feet, and have a rep for being moderate in temperament. Its possible to get one wilder or calmer, but chances are great you'll get a lizard that mellows out well when bigger.
Get a nile, and chances are great you'll get a nasty animal. (Nasty in human estimation, but we're talking a pet here. From a pet standpoint, niles are nasty tempered animals.) That's just the way it is.

The other good point I can see is, hopefully, some of the other students will learn that reptiles are nice animals. Monitors in particular, have poor reps even amoung the herp-loving community.
Go be a good ambassador.
D.