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Hello I orginaly posted this right under Craig's reply about subspeices.

What is concidered a subspeices?

For example would a black gerbil be a different subspieces from a brown gerbil?

I'm asking because I found a florida eastern for sale that is an eastern garter snake from florida ... to be a mate to my florida eastern... florida blue.

But he's not a florida blue, which I didn't relize at first... I asked the person selling if he was and seince he was from florida the seller said yes, but the snake is black with yellow stripeing... no blue. They are both eastern... they are both from florida... they are both the same speices but he is normal colored and she is the "florida blue" color.

To me that's the same as two different colored gerbils (when I was breeding gerbils) and would not be hybrid. (or what the other term was.. integrated?) So I came here to basicalty ask the same question the orginal poster asked, but saw that it had been asked (what is a hybrid) so posted under hear instead.
- Sharon

ok I modified this a bit... I guess I had to make it a seperate post after all... I feel it was never noticed.

Thank you for your time

A subspecies is a population that occurs within a portion of a species' range that has certain traits that distinguish it from populations that occur in other parts of the range.

Domesticated animals like gerbils are biologically irrelevent. Definitions of species and subspecies depend on behavior in the wild, so by trying to apply them to captive gerbils you're sort of missing the point.

I don't know anything about garter snakes. It's quite possible for a single subspecies to have multiple morphs (external appearances). For example, the california kingsnake can be striped or banded. There can be both in the same clutch. Only if the striped ones lived in a separate area from the bandeds would they be considered two different subspecies.

Two subspecies will produce intergrades where their ranges meet. (If they didn't then they would be considered different species). Of course, in some cases a subspecies will be geographically isolated, in which case obviously no natural intergrades can occur.

>>Hello I orginaly posted this right under Craig's reply about subspeices.
>>
>>
>>What is concidered a subspeices?
>>
>>For example would a black gerbil be a different subspieces from a brown gerbil?
>>
>>I'm asking because I found a florida eastern for sale that is an eastern garter snake from florida ... to be a mate to my florida eastern... florida blue.
>>
First, according to my field guide an eastern is a Thamnophis sirtalis sirtalis and a Blue striped it s a T.s.similis...so, you have subspecies and a mating would be an integrade.
They aren't both eastern...only in common name, not in subspecies.
>>But he's not a florida blue, which I didn't relize at first... I asked the person selling if he was and seince he was from florida the seller said yes, but the snake is black with yellow stripeing... no blue. They are both eastern... they are both from florida... they are both the same speices but he is normal colored and she is the "florida blue" color.
>>
>>To me that's the same as two different colored gerbils (when I was breeding gerbils) and would not be hybrid. (or what the other term was.. integrated?) So I came here to basicalty ask the same question the orginal poster asked, but saw that it had been asked (what is a hybrid) so posted under hear instead.

Not the same at all. Different colored gerbils are not subspecies, just types. Just like different morphs of Ball Python are all ball pythons.
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Sonya

Hi. Thanks for the replys.

Sonya ... just an fyi... I do NOT have a blue STRIPED garter. I found out earler this year when I went to order some garters from Scott F. that there are TWO speices of blue garter in florida.

I wanted to link to the site but.... the webpage is weird... it always displays the main site link no matter what page your on so you can't link directly to the artical.
Anyway... go to this site: http://www.thamnophis.com

click on articals, then on the little english button, then you will see a list of articals... the one that discribes the two spieces is 8 down. "Some remarks to the distinction between Blue-striped Garter (Thamnophis sirtalis SIMILIS) and "Florida blue" (Thamnophis sirtalis SIRTALIS)"

Also if you go into the gallery and scroll down to the T. sirtalis ssp. ... click on the 2nd pic where it says T. s. sirtalis (unusual color varations and normals)
The very first pic under there is very close to what I am getting... black background .. yellow stripes.

now go back a page and scroll down... about the 12th little pic you will see "Thamnophis sirtalis sirtalis (florida blue)" same exact speices name... different color. This is what my female is.

Going back out you will see at the 13th picture slot the Thamnophis sirtalis similis... true blue stripe... which is NOT what I currently have.. though I am buying a mated pair (seperate purchase I'm getting 6 new snakes total)

I just found this page recently.
I wanted to make sure the adult male (the black with yellow strieps) that I am buying was not one that could be found in colorado... so I'll probally have to explane this again to my local reptile store if they produce babies and I go to sell them. They won't sell local. I have to explane that the local is T s. P something or other which is red sided subspeices.

Ok have I confused anyone yet?
- Sharon