Reptile & Amphibian Forums

everyone is talking about RDR this and Pete that and all about Nerd. about how many animals they produce and everyone else who's in it for the money "they produce tooooo many" and the big guys, they tell us what they produce on their birthing records so we know how many they have right? BS!!!!!!! Do you think RDR is really only breeding his "Platties" to 2 or 3 females and his lessers are used for mainly crosses? Do you really think there are very limited amounts of spot-nose? Did the snake keeper really limit the amount of majove's they produced? Everyone can make up their own mind, but I know I have. I work with albino's, citrus ghosts, pieds, and pastels for killer crosses with the ghosts and pieds and in the future to hopefully make a citrus hypo pastave. These are the animals that I think look the best and will have the best market appeal to the average consumer. Will prices be lower when I have enough animals to sell, you bet your a$$ they will. Will I recoup the investment that I've put in, I should as I do what I've been shown and told and expierenced.
You want to limit your production but still put yourself $40k in the hole, well that's your mistake. The only thing that will limit my production is the amount of animals that I can give top quality care to. If I can produce 100 babies a year and care for them like they need to be, then I will and everyone that buys from me will know that they have top notch animals to start or expand their collection with.
A long time ago at the South Carolina show, Brian Sharp was giving a lecture and someone asked him "How can I do this full time and make alot of money?" His answer was simple, "unless you have alot of capital to get started and mass produce, it's almost impossible".
What's happening in the ball market is very similar to the burm market in the 90's. albino burms were selling for top dollar so everyone bought into it. For 4-5 yrs they were mass produced by everyone and the price dropped like a rock. You could buy albino burms for $50 at shows just so people could unload their animals. People got tired of loosing money and got out in a mass exodus. Now the albino burm price is on a climb every year because a few people have the capability to mass produce them and you must pay their price to get them.
One last thing, everyone thinks the big breeders are hold-fast on their prices. Call them, talk for a few minutes and offer them a CASH offer below what they are asking and see if they don't take it, they know there are many other breeders that offer the same quality that they do and will be more than happy to take your cash. Just my 2 cents, now flame me;
Josh Hutto
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2.3 het pied (RDR, alan bosch x 2, BHB x 2)
1.1 het albino (ben siegel, gulf coast)
1.2 het citrus ghost(gulf coast line)
1.0 citrus ghost (gulf coast line)
0.1 graz pastel female
1.6 05 normal bp's
0.6 04 normal bp's
2.5 adult normal bp's (some need breeding to see if norm)
4 various corns
0.1 brazilian rainbow boa (alan bosch)
1.0 american pit bull terrior
1.1 taco dogs (ankle biters)
1.0 grey cat
1.1 bearded dragons

a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrior as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!

You are pretty much right on the money. Good post.
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Peace-
Kelli Hammack
H.I.S.S.
email me

I think you summed it all up. I called a very well known HUGE breeder once, told him I am interested in so and so, and before I even asked about the price, he offered them at half price with shipping, and when I got them he even put a little something extra in the box. I didnt even ask! The big guys arnt so bad!

Can we be done with the political/market targeted statements now? Maybe for 2 weeks?

Ben

we can only hope, it's getting real old here and I'm getting sick and tired of everyone "i'm not in it for the money but I want to sell my babies for a few thousand more" talk. Simple fact, if you have more than one pair of any morph you are in it for the money. If you aren't, breed them once, recoup the money you invested and never breed them again. People selling them for half are the ones showing they aren't in it for the money.
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2.3 het pied (RDR, alan bosch x 2, BHB x 2)
1.1 het albino (ben siegel, gulf coast)
1.2 het citrus ghost(gulf coast line)
1.0 citrus ghost (gulf coast line)
0.1 graz pastel female
1.6 05 normal bp's
0.6 04 normal bp's
2.5 adult normal bp's (some need breeding to see if norm)
4 various corns
0.1 brazilian rainbow boa (alan bosch)
1.0 american pit bull terrior
1.1 taco dogs (ankle biters)
1.0 grey cat
1.1 bearded dragons

a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrior as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!

"Simple fact, if you have more than one pair of any morph you are in it for the money. If you aren't, breed them once, recoup the money you invested and never breed them again. People selling them for half are the ones showing they aren't in it for the money."

Well put!!!!!

Hi all,

I tried to post this earlier but evidently it didn't post so here we go again...

First, regarding burms and balls. It's a poor comparison for the following reasons:

1) Very few pet owners can properly care for and house one adult burm - let alone several. So, the demand for burms is and always will be much smaller. Ditto for small breeders. I don't care what new cool burm morph comes out, I'm not going to breed burms - I could only fit eight or ten in the same room in which I can house almost 100 balls. For me seeing a cool burm morph is like seeing a cool cobra morph - I say "Wow, neat!" and move on.

2) Burms have much larger clutches - so the smaller demand is going to be met much faster. A couple of female albino burms can produce a bunch of babies - it would take 5-10 female albino balls to produce the same number. So, on the breeding end, the demand is also smaller.

3) Less important but still a factor, there's a fairly limited number of genetic mutations for burms in comparison to balls.

As far as your comment on the "big breeders," Ralph is the only one I know well so I will confine my comments to him. I'm curious, have you ever visited his place? Do you know him personally? I'm just curious where you are getting your information.

I visited Ralph again this weekend and I somehow missed the racks of "stashed" lesser platties. I guess he must hide them behind the horror figures and sasquatch memorabilia. Sure, he has lessers - adults, yearlings, and babies. But, not in a disproportionate amount. And I've seen all the cool crosses.

I suspect you don't know Ralph that well because if you did, you'd understand that what really gets his juices going is producing something NEW not just more of the same, even if it is his cool lesser platties.

Best of luck on your projects!

Christy

good point, no i don't know ralph personally. I've talked to him a few times and have bought from him. I was using his name, probably wrong, as a generalization along with some other very large breeders about how we can never be 100% sure on how many of any given morph is being produced by them. My personal goal is to recoupe my investment and make a little side cash while enjoying every single one of my animals and projects. I've come to the conclusion that after working with 40 animals that I can probably at most deal with 100 or so and give them the top notch care they deserve and this will limit my production to probably only 20 clutches a year, wow 20 clutches of ball morphs sounds great to me, lol. I could care less how many other breeders produce as long as the prices come down to a point to where I can afford a platty, pinstripe, or bubblegum one day. Josh Hutto
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2.3 het pied (RDR, alan bosch x 2, BHB x 2)
1.1 het albino (ben siegel, gulf coast)
1.2 het citrus ghost(gulf coast line)
1.0 citrus ghost (gulf coast line)
0.1 graz pastel female
1.6 05 normal bp's
0.6 04 normal bp's
2.5 adult normal bp's (some need breeding to see if norm)
4 various corns
0.1 brazilian rainbow boa (alan bosch)
1.0 american pit bull terrior
1.1 taco dogs (ankle biters)
1.0 grey cat
1.1 bearded dragons

a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrior as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!

Hi Josh,

Sounds like we are in a similar position. I too plan on limiting the size of my collection by upgrading rather than continually adding more animals.

I want to make money (so I guesss I'm not a purist lol), but I want it to be a fun hobby too. I don't want it to take up all my time. For me this means not too many animals (both rats and snakes!). I hatched out 12 clutches last year and hope to do a few more this coming year - but twenty sounds about right as far as my capacity.

Good luck,

Christy