Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Ya know, the other day I posted a message questioning the benefits of buying a 100% Het. Pied female, as opposed to 1 or 2 100% Het. Pied males and breeding them to several normal females, see: "What do you buy in an 0.1 Het. Pied". It was just me sharing my thoughts and I got jumped on and (except for Chris Simone) basically told my idea wasn’t really all that bright.

I know a lot of people have a lot of money invested in snakes here, but that doesn't mean someone else's ideas should be shouted down or the person be made to feel stupid. The things people will do and say to protect their $$$$.

It's funny on the same board where people shoot down ANY post that might get in the way of their profit margin, I see post like: “No Pastel X Normal this year” where the guy is imploring people NOT to follow their passion just so HE can make a buck.

Then there’s the “Air of frustration…” post where the guy is basically calling on other breeders to collude and price fix with him, followed by the part where the gentleman rips into another breeder because the guy dares to be selling HIS OWN animals at a price He sees fit.

Unbelievable!

Alan

I guess it hasnt been 2 weeks yet, but I guess 1 hour will have to do. You get upset for posting your view on a public forum, and tell everyone you felt like everyone ripped on you, then you go and ask for it again. If you dont want to hear what everyone has to say, get out a sheet of paper, write it all down, and burn it. If you post it here, you paint a red target on it for everyone to try to hit.

You are right in your last post, not everyone here shares the same point of view on the snake market. There are alot of people in it for the money (my self included). There are some people who are not... really boils down to just a few 13 year olds who just got a BP from petco (IMHO).

The way I took your post about the het pieds, I thought you really wanted to know why they cost so much. I cant imagine ever posting a question here you dont want answered. You will get every Joes advise if you like it or not. Now you know.

There is a cognizant difference between someone critiquing your idea and trashing it because they feel the content will impede sales.

Sorry

Alan

Well, I hope you still want to get into BPs. Piebalds are awsome, I am working with hets right now. I have $$ investedin them, and I could care less what someone on here says. If you want to buy a het female, cool, I bought some, if you want to take the long road, thats cool too, I have many other morphs I only own one het male of. Some day I will produce them too. When I go to a show and put it in someones hands, the credit card will come out just as fast, no matter what someone here says. They are just really neat snakes. You have to see all the morphs in person... pictures just dont do them justice!

Ben

I very highly doubt that anyone is worried about your post impeding sales... Personally, I would never go that route because my goal is to produce morphs and that is a very hard way to go about it... In fact it puts you a year behind anyway you look at it, and that is assuming that you end up with a few females and that at least one is infact a Het...
Also, sometimes people end-up with all Hets from say an Albino to Het breeding... You have a much better chance of that happening when you breed Het to Het, so it might be a few years before you figure out which ones are even hets.
If a Pied was my goal, I would purchase the 100% Het female and then a pied male next year, or a 100% Het if that was all I could afford. Either way you will eventually end-up with a Pied...
Finally, I did not notice anyone being nasty or mean... It seem more like you just wanted people to agree with your idea and that most did not. I would just accept the advice and move on, there really is no need to complain about opinions asked for in a public forum (unless people are really being nasty).
Tom Baker

This is the part I don't get, you say that I will end up a year behind??

Behind what??

Alan

"Behind what??"

Now that is the right question!!!!!!!!!!!

Behind what... now you are surly just playing games. The only reason you would say this is if you are going to buy a het piebald male because you think they look better than a normal male. Otherwise, you GOAL with that het male is a piebald. So now that we have identified the goal, thats what you will be a year behind on. I guess we all just assume when you but a het that looks just like a normal, you intend on eventually producing the homo of the trait. SILLY US!!!!

Ben

Funny, I don't feel behind. I will reach my goal on my time frame. I do not feel driven by money.

In the end there are only so many people who are going to buy a snake(any snake).

The Ball Python "bubble" is running on the fact that not too many people who want to own Ball Pythons, have morphs. How long after 1 or 2 or 3 morphs become common place,(as is happening with the Pastel), do you think people will continue to be amazed enough by the latest morph to shell out all the money they do now?

It was like when everyone was getting online and were willing to pay 3k for a PC. Well now everyone has a PC and is online.There are not too many people willing to shell out 3k for a PC just to surf a little faster. They say my PC is good enough for what I need.

Once you have a stripe and a super stripe, most people will say I am not going to pay 6k for a super stripe with a spot, I have enough for what I need.

Alan

You are talking to the wrong guy about PCs... thats what I do. You may think people are not willing to shell out more cash every few years, but you sound cheap. One of my contact customers replaces every PC in their building every 2 years. I just got done putting in 17 of them the month. I replaced Dell 2.69ghz 512mb RAM, with Dell 3.0ghz 1gig RAM. Computer get old, wear out, and dont work right. They are the one customer we have that actually spends less on a per year basis for computer repairs and support, including the cost of the computer. The work faster not harder. Thats your problem. Faster not harder buddy.

Lets just play a numbers game with the whole het pied deal.

Rules: We will assume 1 male to 3 females, and each year females lay 4 eggs when they are 2 years old. Everything is best case.
------Year 1-------
(YOU)
1.0 het pied
0.3 normals
----------------
3 clutches of 4.
Statistically 2.2 (6.6) 50% poss hets

(ME)
1.0 het pied
0.3 normals
----------------
3 clutches of 4.
6.6 50% poss hets

-------YEAR 2------
(YOU)
1.0 het pied
0.3 normals
----------------
(same as first year)
3 clutches of 4.
6.6 50% poss hets
(TOTAL OFFSPRING: 12.12 50% poss het)

(ME)
1.1 het pied
0.2 normals
----------------
1.0 pied
1.2 66% het
4.4 50% het
(TOTAL OFFSPRING: 1.0 pied, 1.2 66% poss het, 10.10 50% het)

-------YEAR 3------
(YOU)
2.0 het pied (we will just assume you buy another het male to help prove out the females)
0.6 50% poss het
----------------
2.1 pied
4.5 66% het
6.6 50% het
(TOTAL OFFSPRING: 2.1 pied, 4.5 66% poss het, 18.18 50% poss het)

(ME)
1.0 pied
1.1 het
0.5 50%
---------------
3.2 pied
4.4 het
1.2 66%
4.4 50%
(TOTAL OFFSPRING: 4.2 pied, 4.4 het, 2.4 66% poss het, 14.14 50% het)

Now can you see how far ahead ONE het female will get you? On year 3, assume all goes to plan, I will have pieds, hets, 66 hets and 50 hets. Lets say Pieds will be worth $2000, het males $150, het females $600, 66 poss het males $50, 66 poss het females $250, 50 poss het males $50, 50 poss females $200. Thats current albino prices, and they are about 3 years behind piebalds market price.

YOU ME
Start Values -$550 -$2050
Extra Het Male -$400 -$0
Offspring $11950 $19600
------------------------------------
3 year total $11000 $17550

It will just keep going, the offspring multiplys each year.
A $1500 het female look like its worth a bit more than $1500 if you are making a project out of this. Imagine the impact 3 het females would have on the outcome.

Now I know, its likely you will say something like "Well I am not in it for the money" or "Your figures are off". I would say those figures are really close. If you are not in it for the money, who would you ask why a female het is worth so much. I am just trying to show you, because just saying "They are worth it." Is not seeming to get the picture through.

You may not be in a hurry, but the prices sure ar not going to wait for you. One more person I sell a snake to a year before you, will be one more person that wont buy from you.

Ben

The only flaw in your plan is your 0.1 female will not be ready for 3 years. I can start the 0.1 male ($500 adult) with the 3 females next month and have a 3 year lead time on you.

Sorry

Alan

Ummm, first off, 1.0 means male. 0.1 means female. The values incriment when you add more. Second, that was a best case senario. Some females can breed in 18 months. If you are on the ball and have fed them every time, and they are good feeders, there is no reason you should not be ready by 24 months. I have one female I could actually breed right now and she is only 14 months (yah she is a het pied). But I will wait another year for a much sweeter reward. She prob wouldnt ovulate now anyhow, too young.

I didnt start doing this yesterday. Dont tell me what you read on some flashy website, tell me what you know. If we want to pick it apart more, some females lay 5 or 6 their first year. I could get 4 piebalds year 2 insted of 1... I could get none, but that 4 that I COULD get would be a much better gamble than dealing with the 50% hets.

Ben

Ben,

It has to be a fair comparison. I my original post I was comparing buying 1.1 pair and waiting to buying an 1.0 male adult.

I hope you didnt do too much work, however, you would have to take ME at year 3 with YOU just starting off and extrapolate it out from there.

Sorry,

Alan

p.s. I am going home early...dont fry your brain on me...I'll see ya tommorrow.

Ummm, yah thats what I did. I am not seeing how I messed up. If you buy an adult het piebald right now and breed it to 3 normals, how is that any different from buying 1 adult het male and one baby het female? I bet you could get a piebald breeder to throw in a year old het male when you buy your het female. Het males are not really worth much at all. The last show I was at I saw a 400g het pied male go for $150. Thats 2 or 3 good months of feeding away from breeding.

I knew you would come up with a list of stupid reasons why that wont work. You are not in this to learn anything, you are just trying to be diffacult. How old are you 15?

The only reason I am even wasting my time with this is I have NOTHING better to do at work today. Whats your excuse? Fall Break?

Ben

Well actually - if you are just comparing off spring - irregardless of genes - yes if you buy a male you can produce right now. But you are 3-4 years away from a possiblity of pied with your route. And just two away from pied if you spent the money now (yes when she is big enough you'll need to pick up a het male but by then they'll be pretty cheap. That is the only difference. If you just want to breed nothing wrong with the way you want to go. If you want a pied or to breed pieds going with the het girl now is less of a time consuming hastle and gamble.
-----
Tosha

"Nihil facimus sed id bene facimus"

7.33.0 Ball Python (Harry and Fluffy and gang)
1.0.0 Angolan Python (Anakin Skywalker)
0.0.1 Green Tree Python (Verdi - yeah I know but my kids love the book)
0.2.0 Feline (Pippen and Pandora)
0.0.1 Desert Tortoise (Pope John Paul aka JP )
2.2.1 Fish (1,2,3,4)
0.0.2 frogs rescued from pool skimmer

I love ball pythons but I wouldn't feed and clean cages for dozens of them for the next 4 years to get a pied.

I have plenty of possible het females from this year,but they all have to be fed and cleaned just like the rest of my colony.It's much easier to care for 1 to 3 het females than it is for 3 to 10 possibles.
Which is really a side effect type of bonus of buying that 100% female.(I mean...what if i dont have any hets in my .7 at all?!.)
-----
Charles Glaspie

Tanstaafl:
"There ain't no such thing as a free lunch".
An acronym created by my favorite author Robert A. Heinlein.

Then factor in the adult(proven breeder)female het pied.
-----
Charles Glaspie

Tanstaafl:
"There ain't no such thing as a free lunch".
An acronym created by my favorite author Robert A. Heinlein.

that's the right question to ask. Look at it this way. you raise up your het male and breed him at 1.5 yrs old to 5 females. 3 of them take and give you 6 eggs each. you do a great job and hatch out 18 poss het babies. If you are lucky and get a 50/50 ratio of males to females then you have 9 females that are 50% poss het. so now you need to wait another 2.5-3.5 yrs to find out if you hit the odds on your females (all the males could be hets and females could all be norm). now let's say when you breed those poss het females that you actually have het's but get bad odds on those and don't actually get a pied in the first breedings. now you have no idea what animals to breed the following years as you may only be producing more possible het animals. Now if you bought a guarenteed 100% pied pair and in 2.5 yrs your likelyhood of producing at least 1 pied is greater and if you bred your het male to normal females then on your third yr you could have a male pied to prove out the poss het females that you created. Make sence? And yes i know the odds are that when you breed out those poss het females to the het you will more than likely produce a pied, but you may not. I had a normal female breed to a pastel male this yr and give me 6 eggs, all hatched and only got 1 pastel, luckily it was a female but it could have been a male. that is the same as breeding a het anything to a normal, the odds might kick you in the butt. it all boils down to how much money you are willing to spend on this hobby, it's too late to get into it to make a career out of it, but you can make a decent amount of money on the side to pay for itself.
Josh Hutto
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2.3 het pied (RDR, alan bosch x 2, BHB x 2)
1.1 het albino (ben siegel, gulf coast)
1.2 het citrus ghost(gulf coast line)
1.0 citrus ghost (gulf coast line)
0.1 graz pastel female
1.6 05 normal bp's
0.6 04 normal bp's
2.5 adult normal bp's (some need breeding to see if norm)
4 various corns
0.1 brazilian rainbow boa (alan bosch)
1.0 american pit bull terrior
1.1 taco dogs (ankle biters)
1.0 grey cat
1.1 bearded dragons

a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrior as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!

Yes you will get the pied faster if you get a pair of hets. That is a fact.

But who is to say faster is better? The guy who wants to sell, thats who.

I want an albino. I have a het male, and a few normal females. I will get my albino, and for me I don't care how long it takes, it will happen with out spending another dime.

If you have the patience, there is no need to spend the money on a pair. If you don't have patience, then you need to not breed at all, and just buy the morph you want.

Wrong. Cost to raise all the hets will make the albino look cheap.

Ben

What cost?

I breed my own rats, and it cost me like $.66 for a lg rat.

That is a guess, here's the #'s, I get about 130 rats a month. I spend around $20.00 on food and beeding. I sell off the rats I don't need at $2.00 for a lg, I sell around 20-30 a month. Not all lgs, but I make around $30.00 a month selling rats, so in a way I get all my food for free.

With that in mind, I realy have no cost. Yea the cages do cost some, but if I hatch them, I need to house them anyway.

Cost to heat them? No, I heat the whole room any way cause I have burms too. So as long as I keep it in the one room, it will not cost anything to add more snakes.

I realy don't see the cost your talking about, did I miss something?

TIME. Time is money. If you could just sell off all the excess rats insted of feed BPs, thats how much it is costing you to raise those BPs. You may not look at it that way, but thats how it is. If a farmer grows a big crops, but his family eats 2/3 of the crop, he only has 1/3 to sell, and thus all his time has boiled down to 1/3 profit. Now one might say his family had to eat and you still savbe because you didnt have to buy that food, true to an extent. But you dont have to raise a snake. It still comes down to time and resources.

If you can produce snakes so cheap, why not raise 100,000 of them? TIME AND SPACE.

With costs like your you could supply the entire market with snakes and mice and rats... oh yah, TIME, maybe SPACE. hmmmm, I guess time really is worth something after all.

And no offence to those who do, but my wife would leave me if I started breeding rats by the hundreds. Thats really quite gross, and I wouldnt do it for a free lesser.

Ben

TIME. Time is money. If you could just sell off all the excess rats insted of feed BPs, thats how much it is costing you to raise those BPs. You may not look at it that way, but thats how it is. If a farmer grows a big crops, but his family eats 2/3 of the crop, he only has 1/3 to sell, and thus all his time has boiled down to 1/3 profit. Now one might say his family had to eat and you still savbe because you didnt have to buy that food, true to an extent. But you dont have to raise a snake. It still comes down to time and resources.

If you can produce snakes so cheap, why not raise 100,000 of them? TIME AND SPACE.

With costs like your you could supply the entire market with snakes and mice and rats... oh yah, TIME, maybe SPACE. hmmmm, I guess time really is worth something after all.

And no offence to those who do, but my wife would leave me if I started breeding rats by the hundreds. Thats really quite gross, and I wouldnt do it for a free lesser.

Ben

Sorry but this is going to be where we have different views.

To me time is free, I was born with it, No mater what I do I will spend it, when it's gone I will die.

Some might sell their time for money, and then think their time is worth something, but not me.

Yes I could sell the rats I will end up feeding off, but even if I got $20.00 a rat it wouldn't replace the joy I will get from feeding the same rats to MY snakes.

Space? We are talking about balls arnt we? I keep burms, so having the space for balls is nothing. I'm not going to go out and buy/rent a place for my snakes.

I am not saying your worng, not at all. I know I think different then others, thats just me. But time and space is nothen to me. Time is free, and I need space anyway.

Look you have your way, I have mine, we will still end up in the same place when it's all said and done.

"we will still end up in the same place when it's all said and done."

How true that is. We are all entitled to look at anything wany way we want. So far there is no right answer to time, most of us just wish we had more of it.

Ben

"We are all entitled to look at anything wany way we want"

God, if only others would think that way!!lol

Thanks Josh,

Concise, well thought out, facts and statistics.

It may not be what I wanted to hear or maybe it was. Maybe it was what I needed to hear before I wasted a lot of time and money. Either way, I can't detect an agenda which is the way it should be.

Thanks again,

Alan

I had some unbelievable odds on two of my cluthces this year and then I had some really bad odds also... Out of 11 eggs I ended up with 2 Mojaves... 5 eggs in one clutch, 6 eggs in the next... 1 Mojave per clutch... Just the odds sometimes...
Tom Baker

"The way I see it your 2k only buys you 6 or 7 months." Zefdin

This implies that time is a consideration in your post.... Also, here is the "Subject" of your original post....

What do you buy... in an 0.1 Het Pied?

You buy one years time for a more definite result in producing a Piebald... This is no race.... You are not behind, unless your goal is to be the #1 producer of Pieds.... You are not being frowned upon for the route that you are choosing to take... People will be just as stoked to see the photos of your Pieds when you produce them. You are just taking a harder rooute than some would like... The results will ultimately be the same. I did not see any harshness or rudeness in the replies (and I did go read the entire thread again), I just saw a differing opinions.
You called out someone on this forum for him selling some unsexed hatchlings... Something like "don't send that spank my way" and then post about how after Pastels become cheap then other morphs will all become cheap. You dont want to hear anyones opinion and seem kind of negative on the whole Ball thing....
Tom Baker

I also have a Sony VIO 3.2gig, Pentium 4 (hyper drive), 1K of Ram, and a 256K Vid Card... Do I know what all this means? Not really, but I like to play online games which sometimes require a very fast system and I have a project that I am working on that requires alot of hard drive space... My parents have 3 about equal computers and my brother has one and also a very nice laptop... Their is a very big market for Top-Of-The-Line personal computers... Some people only surf the net, and don't need more... Some people need more..... Some people always want the very best.....
Tom Baker

Is that why most of the PC's in Dells ads are 1K or less, when they used to advertise 2k and up?

Alan

I have no idea why Dell does what it does... I can speculate a little... I assume that most people that want a very high end computer, either build it themselves, or the know what they are looking for and donot need to be drawn in with advertising. Dell also offers a wide range of very high end computers. Do you think they do this for fun, or to look more professional? Or do you think they might sell a few?
Also, there is probably a larger customer base that will buy (or can afford) a $1,000 pc as opposed to the $3,000 pc. Just like in snakes.
Tom Baker

I buy about 20 to 50 dells a month. The low end dells are junk. They are very limited in upgrading. You really get what you pay for. Dell also is introducing these cheap computer to capture market share. This is every thing in the electronics market. You could learn alot from Michael Dell. He knows to get ahead, you have to be the biggest and have the most no matter what the cost. Thats why he sells some PCs so cheap, and give free shipping. In 3 years when all his customers are forced to upgrade again they will return to buy from him.

Dont EVEN try to compare the computer market to snakes. I am knee deep in both. And know alot about both markets.

Ben

You could purchase 10 adult female ball pythons or more with the money spent on 1 het pied female if you looked around well enough.

Why not wait, and then have fun proving some out?

If you are going to shell out 1500 for a het female, you might as well buy the homo and be done with it.

Cole Maas

Exactly!!!!!

None of them are bad ideas.... It all really depends on what your goals are and how much money you have to spend. It also depends on how much time and space (poss het females) you want to devote to producing a Pied.
I want to get into Pieds but I cannot afford it at the moment. Personally, I would not want to use my females to make poss. het pieds. I also would not want to house alot of babies strictly to hopefully produce a Piebald, I just don't have the room. I would prefer to buy two or three 100%Het females and then the following year a Pied male. That way I will only be producing Pieds or 100% Hets and I never have to worry about possibles...
It all comes down to what type of money you want to spend... There is no wrong way...
Tom Baker

LOL....I prefer the short way myself. I did buy a few poss het females cheap but I also purchased a pied male and a 100% het pied male to breed with them along with 100% het pied females.
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1.0 Pied(04)(RDR)...Man that was a nice one...gone
1.0 Cinnamon Pastel(Bryan Kollwitz)(05)
2.0 Mojave Ball pythons(05)
0.1 Spider Ball(04)(RDR)
1.0 Butterscotch Ghost(04)
1.0 Albino(04)(RDR)
4.2 Pastels(03's)(04's)(ASF,Graziani,Bell lines)
2.8 Orange Granites(05)
1.0 Yellow Belly(04)(Ian G)
2.0 Yellow Belly(05)(unproven)
1.3 Yellow belly(unproven)(02,03,04's)
2.0 100% HET CLOWN(04's)(MHMR)
3.3 100% het albinos(03's)(high contrast bell line)
0.1 poss Het Albino(03's)
2.0 100% het pieds(03's)(Vin Russo,CRE)
0.2 100% het pieds(03's)(04's)(RDR,TWL)
1.2 Poss het pieds(03's)(PETE KAHL)
2.1 Poss het pieds(00's)(01's) hoping to get PIEDS this year(Vin Russo, Pete Kahl)
25 Normal adult females
60 04 females
15 normal mixed 03's
20 Assorted weird ball pythons 04's
13 baby 2005 PASTELS just HATCHED...4-8-05 and 5-10-05 (O left)

The problem or conflict is that he just wants a pied not necessarily to breed (unless I missed something). Shelling out the money on 10 females - including feeding housing and maintenance on them breeding them incubation costs on the eggs, if each female gives you 4 eggs thats 40 total eggs lets say half of them are female thats 20 snakes to raise for 3 years and proove (include all costs and supplies on those too) plus you have to find homes for 20 unwanted males (advertising costs, shipping costs, etc.). You are easily looking at close to the same cost for a 100% het pied female to begin with and you don't have nearly as much hastle - just to add a pied to your collection. And what if none of the females turns out to be het or proves the first year? Talk about head ache! There isn't a huge market out there for possible hets. Everyone has their way of doing things - none is any better than another - but all things considered - I'd take the 100% het female easy road!
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Tosha

"Nihil facimus sed id bene facimus"

7.33.0 Ball Python (Harry and Fluffy and gang)
1.0.0 Angolan Python (Anakin Skywalker)
0.0.1 Green Tree Python (Verdi - yeah I know but my kids love the book)
0.2.0 Feline (Pippen and Pandora)
0.0.1 Desert Tortoise (Pope John Paul aka JP )
2.2.1 Fish (1,2,3,4)
0.0.2 frogs rescued from pool skimmer

I also have a Sony VIO 3.2gig, Pentium 4 (hyper drive), 1K of Ram, and a 256K Vid

A K of RAM? Yikes! I'm running 2GB in dual-channel! I can't even imagine a PC running on 1K of RAM. And a 256K video card? My first Voodo card had 32MEGS on it. My current Geforce has 512MB. Where can you find a video card with 256K on it? It must be 15 years old!!!

Are you running Windows 3.1 still?

Someone game me a PC the other day and asked me if I could find it a home... it was an old 286. I told him yes... didnt want him to feel bad. No that has prob 512k of ram and a 32k video card. The old green and greener screens!!@#$ Wow! Those things had micanical moving parts in them! The hard drive had a motor to move the magnets over the platters! Now thats old. Ok, Im a geek. I am sorry. Its not every day you hear someone still has a working 256k video card.

Ben

Man, that brings back memories!! (no pun intended!!).

LMAO.... My bad... I'm sure you know what I meant...
Tom Baker

Heh heh, it was funny because you were saying how he wouldn't understand what the PC specs were, but you replaces Megs (MB) with K's, ha ha!

No worries, we got what ya meant!

i had actually bought a voodoo5...with one month left before they went poof.
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Charles Glaspie

Tanstaafl:
"There ain't no such thing as a free lunch".
An acronym created by my favorite author Robert A. Heinlein.

Voodoo's were the BEST. Heck, in my 2nd gaming machine, I was still running a Quake III server with a Voodoo3 STILL in it up until 2 months ago!

Crazy. I saw prototypes of the Voodoo 6. It was absolutely insane.

>Voodoo's were the BEST. Heck, in my 2nd gaming machine, I was >still running a Quake III server with a Voodoo3 STILL in it up >until 2 months ago!

>Crazy. I saw prototypes of the Voodoo 6. It was absolutely >insane.

2 months ago?! wow...some diehard players.
Then again,i still play cs.

I almost replied "Don't you mean 3dfx?"...but your right.It was Nvidea that bought them out!...bastids.(I got one lousy driver update,then poof.)
I had every intention on buying the 6 too...yeah it was to be double the ram with four chips too!..(All they did was slow it all down ehh)
My first machine was a P1 with two Voodoo2s daisey chained together. (I miss the quake rune servers!)

Wow ...the nerd got loose bad that time. lol
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Charles Glaspie

Tanstaafl:
"There ain't no such thing as a free lunch".
An acronym created by my favorite author Robert A. Heinlein.

Careful Chuck your nerd is showing. LOL
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Tosha

"Nihil facimus sed id bene facimus"

7.33.0 Ball Python (Harry and Fluffy and gang)
1.0.0 Angolan Python (Anakin Skywalker)
0.0.1 Green Tree Python (Verdi - yeah I know but my kids love the book)
0.2.0 Feline (Pippen and Pandora)
0.0.1 Desert Tortoise (Pope John Paul aka JP )
2.2.1 Fish (1,2,3,4)
0.0.2 frogs rescued from pool skimmer

It doesn't matter...they always see me comeing anyway. lol
..wait a sec.More people are into pcs than snakes!...so anyone that reads this (especially a day old thread)must be(by default)a nerd.
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Charles Glaspie

Tanstaafl:
"There ain't no such thing as a free lunch".
An acronym created by my favorite author Robert A. Heinlein.

Is that megabits or megabytes? One is a base 1 number system, and one is a base 8... oh hold on... dang it get back here nerd! My nerd seems to be running wild. Sorry.

Ben

Do what you want when you want it and you will be the happiest for it.

I am doing it my way with my Snow project. I could have went and purchased 1.1 double het for Snows and started out 2 or 3 years ahead in my end goal. But I wanted to do it my way and prove it myself with an Axanthic and an Albino. I could have shortened my time and for just about the same cost too.

But that's not the way I wanted to do it.

I am not in it to sell and get rich or make a name for myself, but there will come a time when I need to sell some of my offspring due to limited space. When that time comes, I will be very proud of my animals and how I got them and to that point. Just as you will.

Chin up ole mate, life is to short.

Don't worry about keeping up with the Jones' cuz they live in a trailer park anyway.

As we all know, God hates trailer parks, that's why tornados are constantly cleaning them out.

Best of luck...
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No snowflake ever falls in the wrong place.

Zen proverb

Snowballs

I was thinking the double recessive thing over and over at work today, as I had nothing better to do.

I know you probably already have your gameplan but here's my input anways.

Breed your albino to your axanthic(well, duh)(lol). Keep everything. While you are waiting for the female double hets to grow, breed the double het back to it's mother. Keep the possible hets and breed the offspring back to the other parent. Hopefully you'll get some more girls that have higher odds(per clutch if in fact they are hets) to breed to your double het male.

I worked it all out for a three breeding scnenario but I figured I throw it on the table. Nothing harmed by making some homo/poss hets while waiting on the orginial dbl het girls to grow up.

Cole Maas

The REALLY funny thing is how long two people can go back and forth when it is obvious that neither will change their mind. And then drag a whole group of outsiders in too!