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Please clear up some confusion for me. We all know the rule, "Red touch black, venom lack... Red touch yellow kill a fellow." But is this always true? Are there exeptions to this on either side (ie. coral snake with red/black, or coulubrid with red/yellow)?

Thanks

In the US this rule holds true but if you go outside of the US then it doesn't hold true. In South America there are coral snakes there that don't hold this pattern. I'm sure there are others.

Jason

Please clear up some confusion for me. We all know the rule, "Red touch black, venom lack... Red touch yellow kill a fellow." But is this always true? Are there exeptions to this on either side (ie. coral snake with red/black, or coulubrid with red/yellow)?

This rules works for distinguishing two or three species of snake only. So you can tell milksnakes and mountain kingsnakes from Eastern, Texas and Arizona coralsnakes by this rule, but after that the rule doesn't work at all.

Here is a link to a pic of a totally harmeless little snake from Arizona that has a very coralsnake like (red-yellow-black-yellow-red) pattern. It violates the rule and occurs in the US.
Organ Pipe Shovel-nosed Snake pic

Once you get south of the US/Mexico border these rules don't apply at all. There are coralsnakes that are all red and black, coral snakes with double black bands and many types of harmless snakes with coralsnake patterns.

I once heard Whit Gibbons explain it very succinctly - if you are relying on the old "red against yellow" rhyme to tell venomous from non-venomous snakes, you should be touching ANY snakes at all. There are obvious differences between coralsnakes and most colubrids, but they don't involve the patterns of the bands.

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Chris Harrison
Central Texas

That pic is very Micrurus looking..except for the color of the nose.

Whit is right (no surprise). The head shape of Micrurus is distinctive, as is the way they move, as well as the defensive posture, with the tail coiled up tight.

I amazed my wife many years ago on one of our first dates, when I spotted a snake crossing the road in front of us, & as I was hitting the brakes told her it was a scarlet snake.
Color, pattern, method of movement, and body shape all are keys to a snake's identity.

~~Greg~~

>>Please clear up some confusion for me. We all know the rule, "Red touch black, venom lack... Red touch yellow kill a fellow." But is this always true? Are there exeptions to this on either side (ie. coral snake with red/black, or coulubrid with red/yellow)?
>>
>>Thanks

I also can think of at least one time a few years ago when a lady posted about a snake she had found. It was described as dark body and yellow collar. Everyone assumed a ringneck. She, for some reason (I want to say her dog was bitten) investigated further and the snake ended up being a melanistic coral snake and NOT harmless. Learning your snakes is best.
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Sonya

Haven't we warned you about tampering with the structure of a chaotic system?
Mrs. Neutron

An old snake guy I know said the easy way was if it had a black head, it was a coral. Don't know how much truth there is to that, but he swears by it. This is a guy that will encourage snakes to bight him just to show you they do not hurt!! Carzy!!
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Jenea

1:3 Eastern Hognose
0:0:1 Florida Redbelly Snake
0:1 Gulf Coast Box Turtle
1:1 Red-eared Slider
2:0 Cats
1:1 Kids
1:0 Spouse

To be exact, Its black for only the first half of the head the rear half is a broad YELLOW band and then a black band starts on the neck.

Greg Longhurst showed me coral that had no red (except a spot on its belly) aside from abberant animals the color pattern is red yellow black yellow red....

The head is also blunt and round like a teardrop. All kings have longer narrower snouts.

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

This falls into the same category as the "red touch yellow" rule--works in the US, but hopeless in Central America. For instance, Oxyrhopus petolarius in Costa Rica has the black nose & wide yellow band on the back of the head typical of Micrurus fulvius. Go too far south of the border & there are no pattern differences that will reliably allow you to distinguis coral snakes from harmless mimics.

Patrick Alexander

He was really only refering to species native to our area. This guy is like a guru on snakes in our area, though I have managed to trip him up once in my 28 years of knowing him. He thought my Florida Red Belly was a Ringneck at first...Ha... the only time I ever triped him up!
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Jenea

1:3 Eastern Hognose
0:0:1 Florida Redbelly Snake
0:1 Gulf Coast Box Turtle
1:1 Red-eared Slider
2:0 Cats
1:1 Kids
1:0 Spouse

Like this?

It's a mexican milksnake (as far as I can tell), but I beleive they can be found in parts of the southwest US. (I'm a little rusty on my milksnakes, so don't quote me on that.)

Nice try Larry. Note the head band and others are orange - Not yellow. Also the shape of the head is way off (you might have had better luck with another milk.

Rules of the game folks. I could direct you to nearly fifty different Corals in my library. The combination of band color-Head color-and head shape obviously apply only to North America

The only easily observed constant in Central and South America is head shape.

Oxyrophus is easily distinguished by head shape, which is long and more narrow.

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

Before you get your panties in a bunch, please note that I was replying to the gentleman whose friend told him that if it had a black head it was a coral...

np
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Jenea

1:3 Eastern Hognose
0:0:1 Florida Redbelly Snake
0:1 Gulf Coast Box Turtle
1:1 Red-eared Slider
2:0 Cats
1:1 Kids
1:0 Spouse

np

(lol)
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."