Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I know I have BEAUtIFUL black rats on my property here in Missouri, because I saw an adult (who even rattled his/her tail at me in the dry leaves!) right behind my back fence.

If I wanted to take an '05 offspring for a pet, is there a way to live-trap them (using a pinkie or something?)? I think I even know where one of their holes might be.

Is it even worth it, considering:

1. A WC could have disease, mites, etc.
2. Anything could take the bait, not just a black rat.
3. CBB's are cheap.

Thanks,

Walt

Why didn't you take the one you already saw? I live in MO too and I have to agree Our black rats are the biggest and blackest! Mites and parasites aren't that big of a deal... mites are relatively easy to get rid of. Just make sure you keep the snake in a seperate room as the rest of yours so they don't get mites as well. If you are going to have a wc then a vet check is a must. Make sure you get a fecal sample while you are there. From there they can tell you what medications are needed (if any) Just remember to quarantine it for 6 months! You could catch anything in the traps... but that just adds to the fun try setting multiple traps! you might try a 20 oz bottle with a pinky in it left over night outside... maybe surround the outside with leaves or hay to make it warmer so they will want to stay. You can find cb black rats but here is the problem with that.... They don't look like ours. They aren't jet black and they have a quite visible pattern to them. I have 2 orange albinos and I love them. Black ratsnakes are truely amazing animals! So curious,attentive, and active! I have been keeping an eye out when I drive for a breeding partner to strengthen the bloodlines. Just remember that if you get a wc snake you had better be prepared to take it to the vet! Where are you from in MO? I'm from the sw tips. in Jasper county.
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0.1 Snow Corn "Hope"
0.0.1 Butter Corn "Butters" (South Park)
1.0 Redtail "Kilo"
1.0 Ball Python "Wilson"
1. Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Chunk" (Goonies)
.1 Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Peaches"

I have a new idea. Why not buy a CB Black Rat and let the wild ones stay that way. (LOL) Wild snakes belong in the wild.

There are plenty of CB Black Rats out there for sale. They are inexpensive. One from a good breeder should come to you free of parasites, and you are not depleting the wild snake population.

One more thing. We have the nicest looking Black Rats here in Virginia and I have the photos to prove it.

That is a gorgeous snake, can't deny that! but believe it or not I have seen blacker around here! I caught one a few years ago (pity I released it) that had absolutely NO white on the back! it had not 1 white fleck and it was midnight black the whole length of the body. Accept the belly of course. It was 6'2". it had a very bad scar on it about the size of a golf ball. I kept it for about 3 weeks and released it. I agree that mass depopulation is a horrible thing. especially with what is hapening with the mandarins! But if a locality specific black rat is what he wants there is basically one way to get it. One more won't hurt. And honestly, it is probably better off in a climate controlled cage with a meal every week. Every snake decended from wc.
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0.1 Snow Corn "Hope"
0.0.1 Butter Corn "Butters" (South Park)
1.0 Redtail "Kilo"
1.0 Ball Python "Wilson"
1. Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Chunk" (Goonies)
.1 Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Peaches"

The blackest snakes I've seen are out of the Ohio River Valley. Used to have several myself a few years back. They were huge! Grew to more than 7 feet before I sold them. But I've never seen a Black Rat that was more uniform in appearance than the Ohio River Valley locality. All the others range from a brindle to black w/ visible saddles to black with varying amounts of white flecks.
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Finis Coronat Opus! - "The End Crowns The Work!"

Has the blkest rats ...This is a Washington County female

I should have said the nicest ...I have caught very dark blk rat here in MD

at a show. I was with Peter Jolles. I bought a pair of black rats from Dewey at the last show in Havre de Grace. Fiesty little buggers! Anyway, just wanted to say whats up!

Yeah ..That's my partner!!!!!! That kid has some nice blk rats too ...What kind of blk rats did you get [ morphs]. I'll be at the next show for sure. How's Pete?... that dude came out of know where and jumped started the e. king market NIIICCE and I p/u a sweet yellow rat off of him that girl is a sow.
Later Dre'

>>Has the blkest rats ...This is a Washington County female
>>

These are Prince George's County samples:

A youngster (probably around 2 years old) that I removed from a glue trap last year after it was brought in to me...
.

.
This WC adult below is a live-in resident where I work. He normally doesn't show white unless he's eaten a good size meal and the skin is stretched (he'd eaten 3 mice the day before).

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PHWyvern

Can others see the very faint stripes on the guy in the bottom photo or it's just me?

thanks phwyvern

>>Can others see the very faint stripes on the guy in the bottom photo or it's just me?
>>
>>thanks phwyvern

You know, I never noticed that before.. faint brown uniform striping. It's probably too much of a long shot that it could be from a reflection on the skin of the wood enclosure color which is a brown/mahognay. I'll have to try to remember to take a closer look at him this weekend and check that out.
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_____

PHWyvern

Dre,

I also live in Washington Co. MD (Smithsburg) and have seen some very nice ones this past summer in my yard. I'm a ball python guy so I don't get over to this forum very much.

Take care,
Tom

That girl was found near the potomac river...I have a few ball s too... but i love my blk rats

I wish I had some pictures of the blacks I caught in Frederick County, near Lamb's Knoll. I'd say that were just as black as some of the pics for the one's out of North Carolina.
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Finis Coronat Opus! - "The End Crowns The Work!"

I don't doubt how black obsoleta in Mo. are, but I don't think Va. takes a back seat to any state when it comes to how solid black the obsoleta can occur, or North Carolina for that matter. Here's a couple of pics I took this spring. The younger one has some pattern on the sides, and the larger one is pretty much solid black.
It's all in fun. I've seen Brians (hotshots) Mo. black rats and they are beauties. I believe his is are nice & black with red between the scales

This guy is pretty much solid black, and well over six foot.

Steve

This is not a black ratsnake, but a solid black beauty anyway. It's a pic of my huge Mexican Black King (Nigrita)He was in shed during this pic. He's at around 62-63 inchs. I've had this guy out a few times for education/demos, and every time I have a few people come up thinking I had caught a large black rat, LOL

Steve

Is that a common color and size for the mexican black king? If so I will have to look into those! Are they good pets? Easy to care for?
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0.1 Snow Corn "Hope"
0.0.1 Butter Corn "Butters" (South Park)
1.0 Redtail "Kilo"
1.0 Ball Python "Wilson"
1. Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Chunk" (Goonies)
.1 Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Peaches"

Most Mexican Black Kings are solid black, with maybe a speck or two on the ventral area. Some can be flawless jet black. Most nigrita range from 3 1/2 - 4 1/2 feet. Some bloodines get over 5 foot, like mine, who came from John Cherry at Cherryville Farms. Most of these Kings are dog tame, but they do have a voracious feeding response.

Steve

Is that a common color and size for the mexican black king? If so I will have to look into those! Are they good pets? Easy to care for?

>> Most of these Kings are dog tame, but they do have a voracious feeding response.

LOL. I probably had the rare ones that enjoyed biting and trying to kill anything that moved. One time took 20 minutes soaking in a 5 gallon bucket of cold water to get mine to release and all he did was come up to grab a gulp of air and go right back down bite again... managed to get a glove in between him and my hand so he attacked the glove instead.
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_____

PHWyvern

Steve U have a MONSTER mex blk king ...what do u feed him?

Thanks Dre. He's fed two large mice once a week.

"Steve U have a MONSTER mex blk king ...what do u feed him?"

. . .he's gorgeous! I thought my mexi black king was large at
4 feet until I saw your pic. Mine is a classroom animal, and a more personable snake I've yet to meet. When the kids approach his enclosure, he slithers right up to the glass and tongue flicks--very cool. Thanks for posting your pic--really enjoyed looking at it.
rgds,
althea

Are you sure you didn't find that in Missouri and just take it with you? That is a gorgeous snake and it is pretty much identical to what you will find around here. so your going to send that one to me right?
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0.1 Snow Corn "Hope"
0.0.1 Butter Corn "Butters" (South Park)
1.0 Redtail "Kilo"
1.0 Ball Python "Wilson"
1. Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Chunk" (Goonies)
.1 Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Peaches"

If I remember correctly Brian caught his in the northeastern area of MO. I suppose the red may be locality specific? I have never seen any red down here in the southwest corner. On a different note... where do you typically find them hideing? I have NEVER found one while actually looking for them. I find plenty of brown snakes and ringneck snakes but NEVER a black rat. I always "happen" upon them. Last year I was driving down the road and saw a guy trying to shoe one away with a broomstick. I pulled over and asked if he minded if I took it and he said quote "You can try but he's mean! He tried to bite me 5 times...." I wanted to smack the guy. If you keep pokeing me in the head I would do the same thing. Needless to say I reached down and pick the snake right up without even a hiss. I went and released it into the woods later that day. But anyway, where do you look when you ARE looking for them?

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0.1 Snow Corn "Hope"
0.0.1 Butter Corn "Butters" (South Park)
1.0 Redtail "Kilo"
1.0 Ball Python "Wilson"
1. Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Chunk" (Goonies)
.1 Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Peaches"

Both pictures of those Va. Black ratsnakes were just out in the open. The very large one was found by me just laying on the road early in the morning. I got out of my truck to take a few pics of him,then I moved him off the road so he wouldn't be a target from some passing car. I wasn't even looking for snakes that day. I was on my way fishing, LOL
Much of the time I use my ears as much as vision when hiking becasue if you hear even the slightest hint of a noise in the leaves/grass, I have found many of them that way. Sometimes even when you don't see any they are all around you and you have to use listen carefully. Also strange enough, my nine year old daughter seems to have a nack for finding snakes right out in the open when I've spent hours looking and come up empty. Go figure.

Steve

"If I remember correctly Brian caught his in the northeastern area of MO. I suppose the red may be locality specific? I have never seen any red down here in the southwest corner. On a different note... where do you typically find them hideing? I have NEVER found one while actually looking for them. I find plenty of brown snakes and ringneck snakes but NEVER a black rat. I always "happen" upon them."

I've had some of the best luck finding them under cover-boards believe it or not! Either that or in trees where I can't get to 'em. I'm in the western-most part of their range (Nebraska) so finding suitable habitat is sometimes hard to do. I won't make the claim that ours are blacker or anything, but I have found some MASSIVE guys with an almost russian ratsnake appearance; its kinda neat if you're a schrenchi fan. But, over all I'm sure it all varries.

there are nice black black ratsnakes that have brillant red bellies.

Are you sure you're not seeing a red bellied water snake? They can have very dark colored scales, but have a very red bellies.
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Tom
TCJ Herps
"The more people I meet, the more I like my snakes"

No, I know my snakes, M.Ed. in Biology etc....I taught school in that county many years ago and I saw many of these nice red-orange bellied black rats. Besides, if you were to look at your range maps you would see that Nerodia erythrogaster is a coastal plains snake whereas Rockingham Co. is in the central piedmont. I wish I had some photos of these guys.

Ok, I had no idea where Rockingham county was, just askin'.......
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Tom
TCJ Herps
"The more people I meet, the more I like my snakes"

I think the Blacks down here in Newton co. are much Blacker then those up there in Jasper..LOL Aren't there laws here in Missouri against catching snakes in the wild? I'm down here in Neosho with 50 snakes in the house. Would love to hook up with some locals to talk and swap herps. Drop me a line guys.

Your in Neosho? I'm in JOPLIN! It's great to find someone close! Missouri has a "blanket law" which means you can have 5 species of natural occuring species from the state. Meaning.... it doesn't matter if you have c.b or w.c. you can only have 5 black rat snakes, 5 speckled kings, 5 ringnecks, etc. But, if you bred a c.b. pair you can sell them as long as you have proof they were purchased and are not w.c. (like they would really check) I don't think there are any laws saying how many snakes you can have total at a residence... But I know here in joplin you aren't supposed to have anything over 6' in city limits.
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0.1 Snow Corn "Hope"
0.0.1 Butter Corn "Butters" (South Park)
1.0 Redtail "Kilo"
1.0 Ball Python "Wilson" (Castaway)
1. Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Chunk" (Goonies)
.1 Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Peaches"

This is the snake that started this thread.

Two reasons I didn't take it...

1. I wasn't into snakes at the time.
2. I didn't know what kind it was. It didn't look like a rattler at all, but it wiggled it's tail in the dry leaves and sounded like one. I didn't believe it to be a rattler, but I didn't know if it was some other kind of venemous snake.

I had to go to the Internet and look it up. He was about 5-6 feet or so. Since then we saw a hatchling in the street (run over by a car, or we would've adopted it) in front of the house. Also, my neighbor saw baby snake(s) near my back fencepost. I may try to trap with a pinkie.

To answer phiber's question, I live in St. Charles County outside St. Louis.

I don't know if these pics do it justice... after re-looking at these pics, I think he/she was going into shed. Look at the blue eyes (no flash-daytime pic).

Walt

That is a very nice looking Black Rat Snake. (Someone most have taken it from Va. and let it loose by your home. LOL) I can see why you would want one of its offspring. Still, CB Black Rats cost so little and are so easy to find, why take one from the wild?

>>That is a very nice looking Black Rat Snake. (Someone most have taken it from Va. and let it loose by your home. LOL) I can see why you would want one of its offspring. Still, CB Black Rats cost so little and are so easy to find, why take one from the wild?
>>

IMHO if you are lucky enough to happen upon a hatchling then I would go for it. I was lucky enough last month to ge two (with the help of a friend). I released one because it did not want to eat right from the start so I found a "safe" looking spot with water around and a rocky hill side and let it go.

The second one has been a gem. He is a male I believe. He ate right from the start and only stopped to shed last week. He is now eating regularly again. He is so calm now that he does not strike when I attempt to pick him up and seems as calm as any CB hatching I have ever own.

The problem it is so hard to find the really young ones. These are the first two wild black rats with their natrual hatchling color that I have seen. Most black rats have already lost their "baby" color when I see them in the wild.
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Like I said; I`m Gonna Getcha Good!

>>The problem it is so hard to find the really young ones. These are the first two wild black rats with their natrual hatchling color that I have seen. Most black rats have already lost their "baby" color when I see them in the wild.
>>-----

I see a lot of hatchlings and good size adults every year.. what I find hard to find are the juveniles (1-3 year olds)! Last year was the first year in a long long while to see a juvie and then it was brought in stuck to a glue trap.
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PHWyvern

where do you look?
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0.1 Snow Corn "Hope"
0.0.1 Butter Corn "Butters" (South Park)
1.0 Redtail "Kilo"
1.0 Ball Python "Wilson"
1. Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Chunk" (Goonies)
.1 Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Peaches"

>>where do you look?
>>-----

I work for a county park system. We have plenty of woods and trails and other natural areas (swamps, etc.) to play around in (both with public access and without). Right around our building for example we tend to conduct nature hikes and flip logs to look at insect life and such then replace the items. It's not unusual to find small snakes in this manner (mostly dekays, ringnecks, worm and earth snakes). Just last month we had two homeschool groups out doing a creek hike/survey outing and saw a huge 6' black rat snake coming down the side of a poplar tree... gripping it with the belly (no tree limbs within 30 feet of the ground). We all watched until she came down within reach, gently picked her off the tree, looked at her (based on the tail we believe a definite female) then let her go in the direct she had been headed. She was big enough in girth to be able to take small wild rabbits that's for certain and VERY strong muscled. Her girth was amazing.. she was too small in length to really match the girth so she looked a bit unbalanced esthetically (think indigo snake or big ball python type girth). She was a bit tense with the handling at first, but didn't bite or thrash. Now, this was a pretty black colored snake..only noticable white was the underside and chin. The proximity of where she was found to the area where a clutch of black rat eggs were accidently unearthed at the beginning of summer is close enough that it's possible she could be the mother. I incubated the eggs and hatched out all 10. All but one are proving to be very good eaters. I'm likely going to keep 1 or 2 and let the rest go. Also during that creek hike a baby northern water snake was found and let go again.. also quite calm and not bitey like waters tend to be...abberant pattern on it too lol.

It's not unusal to find the adult blacks lounging in shrubs or low tree limbs when hiking around. Hatchlings usually find trying to get indoors or already indoors (following the deer mouse trails of course). Back when there was still a rather large gap in the garage door, several years ago had one 5' male that would NOT go away. We'd find him in the basement sitting on the feeder mouse cage lol. I'd gave him a mouse and let him go. A week later, he was back. Take him further out into the woods and let him go... several days later he was back. This went on for about 3 months before we finally decided to just keep him ROFL. We knew it was the same snake as he had distinctive scars along the side of the body where it looked like he'd tangled with a hawk and got away (hence his name "Hawkbait". He ended up being a perfect program animal, cornsnake-sweet tempered and had no problems with nervous people even handling him - he just went with the flow. Our current black rat (Levi) is a rather tense snake but still has pretty decent temper... he apparently doesn't like being handled by nervous people though so only staff tend to handle him and he does let you know when he's had enough handling for the day.
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_____

PHWyvern

>>>>The problem it is so hard to find the really young ones. These are the first two wild black rats with their natrual hatchling color that I have seen. Most black rats have already lost their "baby" color when I see them in the wild.
>>>>-----
>>
>>I see a lot of hatchlings and good size adults every year.. what I find hard to find are the juveniles (1-3 year olds)! Last year was the first year in a long long while to see a juvie and then it was brought in stuck to a glue trap.
>>-----
>>_____
>>
>>PHWyvern

That is interesting because I see many juvies and adult here in the Mineral Wells/Parkersburg, WV. area. I am located in north west WV. near the Ohio boarder.

Our adults here are large 6 foot plus and have very large heads. Color wise they are dark but not as solid as I have seen from other states. A lot have red mixed into their scales.

Most are also pretty docile. I remove them from peoples` yards, barns etc.. who don`t like snakes and relocate them to where there is no people near by.

I just don`t see any hatchling like the other age groups. I got mine now though and he is doing great. He is calm when handed and is eating great. I simply cannot wait to watch him "grow up." LOL!
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Like I said; I`m Gonna Getcha Good!

If you want a wild snake then boards, tin and carpet laid out near fence lines and tree lines will attract snakes. Two problems 1. it is actually littering to lay these out and 2. It takes about 6 months to get good under a piece of AC. I fell in love with snakes more in hunting them then in owning them. If you pay attention you can learn a lot by field herping.

Before I got serious about field herping I used newspaper and carpet for cage liners. After awhile I noticed that I never found a snake under a piece of newspaper in the wild so I switched to aspen. The carpet being a terrible choice for many reasons. Then after awhile more I switched to cypress mulch and branches and leaf litter in my cages and I saw the wild snakes I fell in love with. They would investigate their cage when i put in new leaf litter, just like the few times I saw a wild snake that didn't see me. The wild snakes would smell every piece of its surroundings and pick its path carefully as it crawled through the bushes in such a beautiful way.

The point is, if you want a WC black rat then go catch one. In doing so you could, if you pay attention, learn about the snake. At the very least you will likely appreciate it more than you would a $20 snake.

I try to take the little money I make each year to take a trip somewhere with the express point of snake hunting. In the last two years i got a alterna and a pyro on these trips and it only cost me about $1,200 per snake. I did spend the time between trips planning and learning about where i was going and in the process i learned more about my animals homes.

So not all field herping is bad for the hobby as some may want you to believe. Just try to learn about the ecology of the area that you are taking the snake from and it will not be a waste. The science community would like you to forget that they kill the animals they study (some of the time), and have more than one, one of a kind animal in a jar.

Later Jason

very well stated.

I reread it after I saw your reply and I thought I jumped around to much. LOL But thanks for being able to find the point.

Oh and for those of you of you who don't know the value of a Pyro or Alterna they range from $30 to $100 or so. It was still worth it to see the habitat first hand.

Later Jason

If you want a pet Black Rat Snake, don't take one out of its natural habitat, that is where they belong. Purchase one that has been captiver bred and you will have a much happier and healthier animal in captivity.

I don't see any harm in using a w/c male for his genes in the spring, then releasing him. Captive populations get stagnant after awhile. New blood is always good.
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1.1 Blackheaded pythons
1.1 Woma (Juvie female)
2.1 Aussie Olives
1.1 Timors
1.0 Angolan Juvie
1.1 Savu
1.1 Juvie Bloods
1.1 Juvie Balls
1.1 IJ Carpets
1.1 Coastal Carpets
1.2 Macklotts
1.1 Papuan Olives
0.1 Jungle Carpet
2.2 Scrubs (on breeding loan)

Reptilesrock is right and jaykis is wrong. With so many CB's out there, there is no need to catch wild, and I doubt that a wild population would ever have trouble with becoming stagnant especially within a population that is linked with so many other populations that are spread across hundreds of thousands of miles. Besides, your intentions are to have a pet, and not for breeding purposes. Do a snake a favor and buy CB and if you decide one day you don't want it anymore, please don't turn it loose in the wild, odds are it will die within a few months. Give snake to someone who will take care of it and not a 10 or 11 year old kid, which odds are he'll end up killing it by accident due to lack of experience and knowledge.

Your friend, Fredi

"Reptilesrock is right and jaykis is wrong."

That's just your opinion, remember. I didn't say to keep it, I just said to breed it and release. Zoos are always looking for new gene diversity, this is no different. I'm not wrong.
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1.1 Blackheaded pythons
1.1 Woma (Juvie female)
2.1 Aussie Olives
1.1 Timors
1.0 Angolan Juvie
1.1 Savu
1.1 Juvie Bloods
1.1 Juvie Balls
1.1 IJ Carpets
1.1 Coastal Carpets
1.2 Macklotts
1.1 Papuan Olives
0.1 Jungle Carpet
2.2 Scrubs (on breeding loan)

Walt,
There is no doubt MO has the best black rats!!! They are better looking on the other side of the river in Hazelwood though...I caught black rats all the time but never kept any for longer than a week or so.If you realy want one I will give you one this winter when I drive down 70 to see my folks at the Lake of the Ozarks.( where I caught 2 ring necks! I let them go after I tooks some pics..) Blue