Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I know this is more of a private conversation (though anyone is welcome to join in)....I kind of forgot your email though.

A while back you sent me some pictures and info on some very healthy looking and considerably large bearded dragons, and I noticed that one of your key concepts with keeping them is similar to keeping monitors...give them very hot basking spots, and dirt as substrate.

I've done both (right now I don't have dirt in the cage though...a cage switch left me without enough dirt to fill his cage, and now I think it may be too late in the season to find or mix some good dirt). I've also tried all different foods, all different methods of keeping, and I've even had parasite tests and such done on him, which showed him to be 'healthy'. He just acts the same as he has for the past two years or so. He doesn't regularly bask, he doesn't want to eat on his own (when he does, he only eats repcal pellets too....he has refused everything else...even insects!).

I know I'm unable to outline exactly how I keep him here, but I was just hoping you could email me with some very specific info about how you keep (kept?) your dragons, and about anything that you think maybe I should try. I estimate the dragon's age at about 4 years old. He is my first lizard, so I think maybe that has something to do with his failure to thrive now, or maybe it has something to do with all the parasites he had when I got him (there were a bunch of different kinds in him....took over a year to get rid of all of them).

Thanks in advance, now I'm done wasting space on the monitor forum.

I haven't been around in a while....I forgot I could just click on your name and email you (oops). Too late now. Get back to me as soon as you can Shvar.

First it doesn't matter if you have a ackie or bearded. If your reptile is very selective about its normal food, it simply means something is wrong. How picky it is, equals how wrong your setup and related health of your charge is.

They, beardeds and monitors, happily consume a whole range of prey items, including things not considered normal. The healthier the indivudual, the more justo it feeds with, and of course, visa versa.

Which means check your husbandry, check it against one or more of the keepers that have proven highly successful, which there are many.

I have to ask, why are you asking SHvar, he only has a couple beardeds and for a short time. Yes, it seems hes doing very well, but there are scores of others that have taken beardeds thru many generations and even created all sorts of morphs? Why not ask them?

I hope I am wrong, but when someone asks the wrong person, they seem to be wanting someone to tell them what they "WANT" to hear. Unfortunately, no matter whom you ask. Its your problem and resulting effects on your charge.

The point here is, there are many unique factors that beardeds get, that monitors do not. Things like Coccidia and retro viruses, that cause the symtoms you discribe. So ask someone with extensive experience and have your vet check for these types of problems, as well as check your basic husbandry. Good luck. FR

Thanks for the info! I was mostly asking Shvar because he seemed to implement husbandry that made sense, rather than the stuff most people seem to be doing currently (which seem to make parasites and things of that nature a regular occurance). I get what you mean though....I should go the tried and true route, and not the new route, because it hasn't really been proven yet.

I know something is wrong. I just can't figure out what. He's had two clean fecals in the near past. The only thing that seems to stick out is maybe a kidney problem, as he showed signs of it a couple years ago, since all he was eating was crickets (he's always been very picky...even when he was eating a lot). We (my vet and I) had thought that we had gotten that sorted out, but now maybe it's making another appearance.

One thing that seems to stick out the most to me is his diet. When he did eat a lot, the things I could get him to eat were crickets and repcal pellets, and since the crickets were causing kidney problems, I went with repcal pellets, but have tried switching to a diet of mostly greens. I think that a diet of mostly grain might be causing the problem now. The theory on that is that it's causing constipation, or some sort of deficiency, which is causing this. The only thing I can think of to do to check for that is to get him to eat some greens and stuff, properly supplemented (or run blood tests...which might happen anyways). The problem is that the only way I can get him to eat greens is if I literally force him to. I got him to eat greens today, but in order to do it I had to first use a tooth pick and roll it on the front of his mouth to get him to open up, and then feed the greens in. This seems like it has the potential of causing a lot of stress though, which is why I'm very reluctant to do it.

But it seems like right now it's the only idea I have. The beardie forum is out of ideas, my vet is out of ideas, and the other local vets ran out of ideas long ago.

Raised from hatching never had any health problems with keeping them the same way as a monitor eating crickets, lobster roaches, and dark greens only. They mature early, get HUGE and multiclutch every 3-4 weeks. I stopped keeping pairs, I keep on beardie only, I dont enjoy them so much, more work than fun I guess.
Now, the beardies I got from many even big name breeders, and older beardies I got from others had some health problems to overcome, some nothing could be done to help them, why I couldnt tell you, other than their former keepers, breeders long term husbandry.
You said yours were a few years old and in bad shape when you got them, thats a bad sign to start, a good friend recieved many free from a big name dealer that gave them away, they were all small, dehydrated, and in bad shape, they were all older dragons, but most not even close to sexual maturity. These animals all but a few died no matter what was done.
My single beardie is huge and healthy, thats just fine by me, he will be 1.5 yrs old in 2 days, 22 inches, and heavy but athletic built not fat.

from what I already knew about my dragon, and what you just told me, I'm pretty sure that it's going to be a struggle for the rest of his life.

Yes, he was very unhealthy and very small when I got him. He started at 14-15". When he basically became addicted to crickets (that's what I'd call it), he put on another inch or two in length, but never any better.

It's really my fault in a number of ways. Number one, I made a really bad choice getting him from the place I did. I definately should have known better. At the time, he was being kept in a 20 gallon long tank with 2 other dragons his size, one that was much larger (and unhealthy looking), and two small monitors (maybe ackies). I saw all that, but of course I was younger at the time, he was my first lizard, and I didn't realize what kind of problems it would cause. I think after 2 years of battling parasites (at least 2 years, looking back), and now this, I'm definately going to make a better choice with my next beardie...if I ever get another beardie (like you said, they're a lot of work for what they are).

But I won't give up on Sydney. He's not doing too bad with the sort of forced hand feedings of greens. Basically getting him to open his mouth the first time is the hard part, but then once you get some greens in his mouth it's more or less the woodchipper affect (keeps pulling greens in). He doesn't seem to happy about this, but I figure I'll try this until I get the repcal pellets out of his system completely, and see if then he's more eager to eat his greens and crickets.

One of my other lizards is a mali uromastyx that I rescued from a guy that kept her in a 10 gallon tank, fed her nothing but iceburg lettuce, and gave her nothing to heat herself except a heat rock (and keep in mind everything hadn't been cleaned in ages). Apparently she did have a heat lamp at one point though, before it fell on her and gave her third degree burns. That was almost two years ago that I got her. After putting her in an appropriate setup and giving her lots of heat and food, she has been thriving (for the most part).

Thanks for the info Shvar and Frank. I like to come here as opposed to the bearded dragon forums because there seems to be a better understanding of reptiles.

I used to do a lot of recue work, mostly savs and niles (for monitors anyway, green iguannas and burmese were most frequent) any way I got lots of savs especialy that were badly dehydrated and had kidney damage. One of the primary causes of death was kidney failure, even in animals that seemed to be healthy/ recovered. The vet I worked with, one of the few who actually specializes in herps, told me that kidney damage in herps is permanent and cumulative. He said it was especialy problematics in imported lizards that spend most of their ealy captivity and transportation time in poor conditions, often with out food, water or heat and each time they get dehydrated or have any other kidney problem after it just adds up. I used to have about a 60% success rate saving the stuff that came to me. Pretty god when you consider a lot of iy was written off as dead by pet stores. Check your husbandry, improve conditions and do what you can, but you have to accept that an animal that suffered a heavy parasite load for several years and has had kidney damage will probably have a significantly shortened life expectancy. If you want them to live longer, start with healthy animals, if you want to do rescue work, learn to accept the fact that some can;t be saved or, if the are saved, they may not live long lives. When we first started the rescue, my kids name every animal that came in and get really upset when one died, after a while they stopped naming them until they had been around at least a year. just something to think about

since he had shown signs of kidney damage since we got him.

It was a bad place to buy him from, and because of that stupid decision on my part (as well as the poor husbandry I must have provided as a first time herper), he's had to suffer a lot. He's lived a long life considering the parasites and everything (4 years isn't bad for an unhealthy reptile). I mostly just want to find a way to get him happy before you-know-what finally happens, and I want to try to prolong it from happening.

That's why I've been a lot better about judging where I buy animals from. I first got my beardie, then I rescued a uro, whom was already over 9 years old and has been happy and fairly healthy for the past two years since I got her. Just last year I finally bought a healthy reptile, a little leopard gecko, and I realized how much more enjoyable reptiles are when you start with a healthy one.

Thanks for the info from all of you guys. You've helped a lot. I am just going to try to get him on a better diet, regularly flush him out (force feeding gatorade or pedialyte twice a week is usually a good method of trying to clear out the kidneys a little....not a solution to a permanent problem, but rather a way to help the situation). I accept that it's my fault he is the way he is.