Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I look at the pictures posted on here and keep thinking that some of you are working toward "fixing" or establishing particular patterns or "looks". I just wonder what traits you're trying to emphasize.

I'm focusing on a few projects:

Blackbelly pattern
Wide and mega-bands
Color (white, cream, yellow,orange)
Albinos

Are there any other traits that you are trying to emphasize?

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Bob Bull
1.3 L.g.getula MD Locality
2.2 L.g.g GA locality
2.3 L.g.g albino
1.4 L.g.g het albino
1.2 L.g.g P-het albino
1.0 L.g.floridana peanutbutter
0.2 L.g.f. het peanutbutter
1.0 L.g.f. N.E. axanthic
1.0 L.g.nigrita
1.1 L.t.hondurensis het hypo-melanistic
0.1 L.t.hondurensis hypo-melanistic

Im focusing on...

Locale Easterns

Giants

Then I will start focusing on what I would guess is a classic patterned Eastern King. Very straight crossbars that are extra white with high side chains on black. They key to this is getting the adults to be as clean as the juveniles. Anyone who has kept and or raised a number of Easterns knows that the dingy ones are more common than nice clean ones.

Keith

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Keith your work with thin chained northern easterns is fantastic. I especially like the idea of some of the non-locality crosses to try for the gleaming white thin chains.

The giants are also another trait to focus on. I think a lot of these traits are multi-gene complexes so it should keep us busy for a couple of years.

Talk about white, heres one of the MD hatchling pics

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Bob Bull
1.3 L.g.getula MD Locality
2.2 L.g.g GA locality
2.3 L.g.g albino
1.4 L.g.g het albino
1.2 L.g.g P-het albino
1.0 L.g.floridana peanutbutter
0.2 L.g.f. het peanutbutter
1.0 L.g.f. N.E. axanthic
1.0 L.g.nigrita
1.1 L.t.hondurensis het hypo-melanistic
0.1 L.t.hondurensis hypo-melanistic

... did I ever tell you that I found out my biggest eastern is a cb animal? Of course I have no idea of his lineage, but it was kinda good to find out he wasn't wild collected I guess.
As for my easterns Bob, I will be pairing up locality NC, SC, and FL animals if I can next season. If not, then I'll pair up my largest male to my largest FL female and my best NC male with a nice NC female.
I can't really ever call what I do "working with" snakes, but that's my goal next year.
:Mark

Although I've seen some really neat color and pattern variations in easterns, currently I'm just working to perpetuate the "classic" look. If I get more chain kings, they'll be the "bumble bee" type.

Tim

Third Eye

Nice looking snake, Tim. The GA snakes are full of potential aren't they. I can't wait until spring when I can pair up two of my GA's.

What do you think about these two?

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Bob Bull
1.3 L.g.getula MD Locality
2.2 L.g.g GA locality
2.3 L.g.g albino
1.4 L.g.g het albino
1.2 L.g.g P-het albino
1.0 L.g.floridana peanutbutter
0.2 L.g.f. het peanutbutter
1.0 L.g.f. N.E. axanthic
1.0 L.g.nigrita
1.1 L.t.hondurensis het hypo-melanistic
0.1 L.t.hondurensis hypo-melanistic

you have a beautiful pair on your website!

Great "touch of autumn"! Gotta love the classics!
Todd Hughes

The S. Ga.s are my fortay(sp.) 2.4 total 1.4 are Enge stock
male 03 Ga.
male 04 Black belly Ga.
fem 04 Ga.
fem 04 Ga.
fem 04 Ga.
fem 05 zipper pattern Ga.

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Bob Bull
1.3 L.g.getula MD Locality
2.2 L.g.g GA locality
2.3 L.g.g albino
1.4 L.g.g het albino
1.2 L.g.g P-het albino
1.0 L.g.floridana peanutbutter
0.2 L.g.f. het peanutbutter
1.0 L.g.f. N.E. axanthic
1.0 L.g.nigrita
1.1 L.t.hondurensis het hypo-melanistic
0.1 L.t.hondurensis hypo-melanistic

im just going after clean patterns some black and whites ,but i also like the creamy orangee on brown i currently have both types,,,what is that pic of?is that amel lgg? 50 bands???
,,,,,,,,,thomas davis

Yeah, its from the easterns, the incubator crapped out while I was away doing field work and the eggs spent about a month at 73-75 deg. It took 86 days for that one to hatch with a terribly kinked neck and incomplete ventral fusing. The band counts are high on all of the albinos but this one was very high.

Here's one more pic. I put this animal down after taking these photos.

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Bob Bull
1.3 L.g.getula MD Locality
2.2 L.g.g GA locality
2.3 L.g.g albino
1.4 L.g.g het albino
1.2 L.g.g P-het albino
1.0 L.g.floridana peanutbutter
0.2 L.g.f. het peanutbutter
1.0 L.g.f. N.E. axanthic
1.0 L.g.nigrita
1.1 L.t.hondurensis het hypo-melanistic
0.1 L.t.hondurensis hypo-melanistic

maybe its just me with but amel lgg looking like that i have to question the line they came from,,are these amels descended from the w/c commercially collected amel poached in Tn. story? if so it makes perfect sense maybe after a few generations maybe they will start looking like lgg good luck with them
,,,,,,,,thomas

Thomas, the only albs and hets in my possesion that are not directly from Tom Chiang or Terry (originaly from Tom)were acquired from a third party saying they were out of Terry's stock. Those animals (7) are not going to be mixed into the above line until I've done some extensive test breeding next year.

You and I will disagree over the purity but they are still beautiful animals.

Make sure you send Hubbs that shot of Cleo for his book. I'll lobby hard for its inclusion. I just love that picture and wish I could have seen it alive.
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Bob Bull
1.3 L.g.getula MD Locality
2.2 L.g.g GA locality
2.3 L.g.g albino
1.4 L.g.g het albino
1.2 L.g.g P-het albino
1.0 L.g.floridana peanutbutter
0.2 L.g.f. het peanutbutter
1.0 L.g.f. N.E. axanthic
1.0 L.g.nigrita
1.1 L.t.hondurensis het hypo-melanistic
0.1 L.t.hondurensis hypo-melanistic

had to use the "P" word huh,just ftr i beleive they are pure getula bob,and they certainly are beautiful i just beleive that amel gene was introduced via another ssp.of getula(doesnt make it a hybrid)and i just dont buy the founding amel lgg commercially collected/poached story. also imho with line breeding they will only get better and eventually will probably produce "pure"(man i hate that word)lgg good luck with the group,,,,hubbs could sure use that pic if he chooses to but i also am eventually going to write a book and of coarse i will use it as well,,,,,,,,thomas

Hey Bob,

Nice high banded amel! I am also working on getting florescent orange banding into my line of amelanistic getula by breeding them into my orangest GAs. As you know, my goal is to refine certain pattern and color characteristics in the S. GA line (Enge/Still) including wide banded and striped patterns and deep red/orange color that is retained into adulthood. Also, like Keith and a few others, I'm attempting to establish a line of consistantly clean blue/black and white "classic patterned" easterns, with thin high chaining. Finally, I really like my highly speckled Outer Banks easterns, and I am attempting to breed for a lighter background color and more washed out appearance in those animals. I feel that easterns are the most naturally variable of all of the getula and offer endless possibilities as long term breeding projects. Thanks for starting this inquirey.

Will

I wasn't going to reveal your secret amel project.

See my response to Thomas about that amel.

Last year we lost power from Hurricane Isabel for long enough to destroy the eggs residing in my basement. It totaly sucks, now I'm building a huge humidity and temperature controled incubator(should have done it last winter) and as soon as funds are available I'm installing a diesel generator.

Here are my adult Marylands in the luv-tub.

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Bob Bull
1.3 L.g.getula MD Locality
2.2 L.g.g GA locality
2.3 L.g.g albino
1.4 L.g.g het albino
1.2 L.g.g P-het albino
1.0 L.g.floridana peanutbutter
0.2 L.g.f. het peanutbutter
1.0 L.g.f. N.E. axanthic
1.0 L.g.nigrita
1.1 L.t.hondurensis het hypo-melanistic
0.1 L.t.hondurensis hypo-melanistic

Hi Bob,

Yup, that is my Burlington NJ as youngsters. They are still creamy looking in that pic, but they have lost that completely. Good thread here Bob.

Will

.

.

>>Hi Bob,
>>
>>Yup, that is my Burlington NJ as youngsters. They are still creamy looking in that pic, but they have lost that completely. Good thread here Bob.
>>
>>Will
>>
>>
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Bob,

Are those Marylands as clean and white as they appear on my screen?!?
They look outstanding in the pic.

Will

I'm focusing on keeping and breeding locale specific Easterns. Next year I plan on producing some offspring from my Wakulla Co., FL pair:

And if I can find a male, I hope to produce some from my Taylor Co., FL Easterns:

Other than that, I'll be breeding some getula from the Apalachicola region:

Love that Wakula!!! Check out the side pattern on the Taylor Co. Those are great pictures of beautiful snakes. This thread has been awesome.
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Bob Bull
1.3 L.g.getula MD Locality
2.2 L.g.g GA locality
2.3 L.g.g albino
1.4 L.g.g het albino
1.2 L.g.g P-het albino
1.0 L.g.floridana peanutbutter
0.2 L.g.f. het peanutbutter
1.0 L.g.f. N.E. axanthic
1.0 L.g.nigrita
1.1 L.t.hondurensis het hypo-melanistic
0.1 L.t.hondurensis hypo-melanistic

I am working with a trio of Georgia locale animals that will go next year for the first time and I have two non local females. One is my attempt at the clean white bands and blue black ground the other is one that throws babies with aberrance in the patterns. All of them are killer snakes that i enjoy even if they are not big dollar snakes.
Later Jason

man jason
that is one SAWEEEEEEEEEET e.king in that first pic.! man i love the black all 3 are very nice but that one definately caught my eyevery nice,,,,,,,,,thomas davis

Monsters of the south (a strain of 6 foot giants); Large wide bands; Classic chain pattern with wide white bands from North Carolina animals and maybe a solid black individual (an Eastern "black kingsnake". I also love the peach/orange individuals. . . EASTERN KINGS RULE!!!

Zee

That 3rd one is just so gorgeous!
I love snakes that are perfect examples of their natural morph/locale.
I can do w/o all the man-made freaks that dont even resemble what nature created(sorry, had to get that off my chest!)

found two other Kingsnakes at the SAME exact location and they did not have that many bands and one of them (a 3 foot female) was rather drab/ugly looking. . .Here they are:
The first pic is the ugly (female) one . . .the second pic is another handsome little female . . .

Zee

Well I am.

I've got 1.1 right now... 1 is a nice orange and black 04' male from Will Still. And the 0.1 is a 33" female with yellow speckling I got from Keith. Both are GA locale.

I hope breeding them together would produce something interesting... Guess we'll see when it happens.

Your opinion, do you feel 100% confident that your albino easterns are infact easterns?

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Mike
KingPin Reptiles Inc.
Helmz777@aol.com
www.freewebs.com/mikesnake
Updated 9/19 NEW PICS/INFO

Yes Mike, I feel that the animals from Tom and Terry are pure L.g.g. Others, like Thomas don't. As I've made perfectly clear on this and other forums there is a question on the origin of this line. There will be no proof further one way or the other because all of the people originally involved have moved onto other snakes. So there is ample room for zealots and doubters. One can only be honest and open.
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Bob Bull
1.3 L.g.getula MD Locality
2.2 L.g.g GA locality
2.3 L.g.g albino
1.4 L.g.g het albino
1.2 L.g.g P-het albino
1.0 L.g.floridana peanutbutter
0.2 L.g.f. het peanutbutter
1.0 L.g.f. N.E. axanthic
1.0 L.g.nigrita
1.1 L.t.hondurensis het hypo-melanistic
0.1 L.t.hondurensis hypo-melanistic

Hi,

I saw the F1 hets produced at NERD while on a visit there in '97. I was convinced at that moment that they were the real deal. I had been keeping easterns from a variety of locales for 15 years by that point and was (and am) supremely confident that I was seeing the genuine article in the F1 hets. If another amelanistic getula was bred to an eastern to produce the first generation of hets I believe that the offspring would resemble both parents, like Rainer's brooksi X eastern crosses. Kevin's F1 het easterns looked like easterns all the way. At that moment, and from then on, I believed in the project and made it my goal to get my hands on some.

Now, I don't think that it is really the appearance of the snakes that is scaring people off. It's really rather foolish to say that they don't look like easterns considering how variable eastern kingsnakes are. It is kind of innappropriate (IMHO) to judge the validity of any eastern by comparing it to the "classic" pattern type, because that type is really not how the vast majority of easterns look due to the variability of the sub-species. Some are banded not chained, some are partially speckled, some are brown, some are black, blah, blah, blah. If classic easterns were what the majority of chains looked like, Keith, myself, Peter, Zee and many others on this forum would not be making such an effort to produce consistantly "classic" looking captive lines.

About the capture of the original amelanistic...I've heard all of the versions of the story and in my opinion, it is not a conspiracy or cover-up, just sloppy record keeping by the collector. Simple as that. It happens. Easterns weren't valuable to most back then, so the guy didn't put in the extra mile to nail down the location of capture as well as he should. Collectors sometimes really didn't care about such details. I know this first hand as I worked at a major wholesale house during the mid-90s and saw many wild collected mutations come in the door without any decent collection info at all. They came in, had a big price tag slapped on them and out they went. Many folks just weren't that particulat back then. It is a damn shame however, because an awesome, and I believe a true eastern morph will always have that stigma attached now. I don't blame others for their lack of confidence in the validity of the albino, everyone has their own opinion which they are welcome to, I just feel badly that such and an awesome snake will not get the credit that I feel it is due. Thanks.

Will

Hey Will

I agree with all you for the most part. I like the fact that you guys dont hammer that these are without doubt the "Real Deal". Terry and I really looked into those and we just couldnt get any real good info from Kevin or anyone else. I lean towards they are the likely Albino Easterns myself, enough so that I put them on my site. Also there will soon be another Albino Eastern King coming out. Should be interesting to see how its treated but I believe in this one as well.

Keith

A small look at the WC Locale Albino Eastern King. I swear I would say more but I gave my word, I hate being a tease sorry.

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I have a pair from Will Still (sadly, the female is at large in the house somewhere...I hope). I think they could (will) be selected for size, width of bands, and coloration. I can imagine huge black and orange and black and red beauties becoming common.

Hopefully I will be able to work toward that goal.

It stinks to have one on the loose. The bright side is that it looks like there will be plenty of South Georgias in a few years. Good luck on finding your wayward charge.
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Bob Bull
1.3 L.g.getula MD Locality
2.2 L.g.g GA locality
2.3 L.g.g albino
1.4 L.g.g het albino
1.2 L.g.g P-het albino
1.0 L.g.floridana peanutbutter
0.2 L.g.f. het peanutbutter
1.0 L.g.f. N.E. axanthic
1.0 L.g.nigrita
1.1 L.t.hondurensis het hypo-melanistic
0.1 L.t.hondurensis hypo-melanistic