Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I recently changed the substrate for my BRP (6 months old) and she is showing a strange behavior. I originally had a bowl filled with cotton balls in which she constantly remained on. I would spray the cotton balls every day for humidity/moisture for my snake. I suddenly changed the cotton balls to Aspen Mulch and now she lays outside her hiding spot during the day and soaks in her water dish at night.Temps are constant at 73 degrees. Is that normal?
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....Your snake and I both don't like aspen mulch. Aspen mulch is excellent bedding for some animals but does not seem to do well when kept very wet. The oils in many woods are noxious to snakes. This is especially true of cedar and to a lesser extent with pine. Perhaps aspen has less of the problem with this but???? Try removing all the substrate from the hide except for damp papertowel for a little while and see what happens.
Jeff

>>I recently changed the substrate for my BRP (6 months old) and she is showing a strange behavior. I originally had a bowl filled with cotton balls in which she constantly remained on. I would spray the cotton balls every day for humidity/moisture for my snake. I suddenly changed the cotton balls to Aspen Mulch and now she lays outside her hiding spot during the day and soaks in her water dish at night.Temps are constant at 73 degrees. Is that normal?
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I took out the Mulch and she seems to enjoy the newspaper
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My BRB's are all kept in similar cage setups, I have a sweaterbox sized hide with holes in one side for access. Inside the hide is dampened green moss. On top of the hide is a 2 gallon flat fishbowl with about 2 inches of water. The cage is lined with dimpled craft paper from uline.com, I was using newspaper but didn't like the ink getting on me, the BRB;s and the cage. At least my local paper, when urinated on (and we all know how much BRB's urinate ) would allow ink transfer to whateer was contacting it. Not a lot but even a little was too much for me.

Here are some pics of one of my cages. Fairly old pics from when I used newspaper. One section had Ball pythons and another had some shoeboxes with babies in it. At that point in time the pipes were open for travel (except the ball and baby sections) and not all sections had hide and/or water. Now each section has hide and water and is blocked except for breeding season.

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Thanks,

Dave "Rainbows-R-Us"

0.1 Wife
0.2 kids
4.12.100 Brazilian Rainbow Boa
1.1 Ball python
0.1 BCI "Elvira" normal from 1989
1.0 BCI albino / het-anery
0.1 BCI Hypo / het-albino
0.1 BCI Anery / het-albino
0.1 BCI Hypo (possible super)
1.0 BCI albino het stripe
1.0 BCI salmon hypo
0.1 BCI ghost

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

What type of lighting do you use? It looks like you are using regular lightbulbs...is that true?
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Yes, I know it's not the recommended method! When I made the cage years and years ago, I didn't know better. I think what makes it work is the bulbs are suspended from the ceiling (harder to perch on). I have a second cage and it has no lights and uses heat tape for temp control. The first cage has only the lightbulbs on dimmers and thermostat for heat. Has worked for years that way, I produced 135 babies this year from that cage (and 2.6 BRB's)
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Thanks,

Dave "Rainbows-R-Us"

0.1 Wife
0.2 kids
4.12.100 Brazilian Rainbow Boa
1.1 Ball python
0.1 BCI "Elvira" normal from 1989
1.0 BCI albino / het-anery
0.1 BCI Hypo / het-albino
0.1 BCI Anery / het-albino
0.1 BCI Hypo (possible super)
1.0 BCI albino het stripe
1.0 BCI salmon hypo
0.1 BCI ghost

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

I've gone back and forth with lots of set ups for BRBs over the last 16 years. I've experimented with all sorts of hide boxes and substartes and I now have something that I think I'm going to stick with. I use a Western Fir Mixture which I get from Orchard Supply for the bottom of my cages. It's a reddish color and very attractive. I don't spray it or keep mos on it so I don't concern myself with how it reacts to water. In fact, I've given up on damp hide boxes all together for my adults. On the warm (84° F) end of the cage, I prop a piece of plywood on top of some short bricks. This gives a crevice-like hide spot that the animals tend to really like. On the cool end (65 - 75 depending) of the cage I place a large container of water that the snake can easily get into and out of. They really seem to appreciate the opportunity to soak and will take advantage of it often. Especially when they are in or approaching a shed. Other than that, I keep them very dry. I know this goes against what is commonly discussed on this forum but it works well for me and I live in a dry part of California. The exception is with babies. I make sure to lightly spray their cages once a day or so. I have lost young animals in the past because of dehydration.

The only thing that concerns me from your e-mail is a constant temperature of 73°. I know that BRBs can take it cooler than other boas but, in my experience 84° is the magic number for digestion. This also may go against popular forum belief and if you aren't having any problems with regurgitation or respiratory infection then you may be O.K.

I' at work now and don't have access to nice pictures. I'll try to post on eon the forum later if you're interested.

Mike

Mike,
....I actually do agree with much of what you are saying. I use no moss in the cages for my adults. They are on ugly newspaper that is often but not always damp. For hides I use upside down clay flowerpots with the drain holes enlarged so the snakes can pass in and out through them. About once a week the flowerpots soak in the bath tub while I clean the cages. The humidity is high inside these flowerpots for a couple days after they have been soaked but after they have dried out the cage humidity is very low for several days. My adults thrive in these cages and shed their skins very well. They will move to the warm spots on the floor of their cages when digesting but when they are not digesting almost always are in a spot in the cage where their temperature stays below 75. I use Raytek heat guns to check snake temperatures and was amazed when I first started using them and saw what the snakes were doing. When they are digesting they position themselves so that their bodies are usually around 80.
....I too have lost babies to dehydration. I have also lost them due to overheating when I have made mistakes and had equipment failures. On the other hand, I have had BRBs go through their first winter cooled down like I cool the adults. For weeks they were in the 60s most of the time. These snakes did well and ate and digested with these temperatures. I know that the biggest cause of deaths of little BRBs is too high temperatures or too low humidity. Because of this I err on the side of caution and recommend temperature and humidity that you know are actually a little cooler and wetter than what will work. People who breed these snakes invariably are people who pay close attention to little details. We both know that these snakes will do fine with the warm end of the cage in the high 80s so long as they have a temperature gradient so that the snake is not confined to the temperature in the high 80s all the time. We understand the need for a temperature gradient in a cage. Most people who are new at this and even many experienced people do not understand temperature gradients. The people we are selling to are sometimes as crazy as we are but some of them are not very detail oriented and if you tell them temperatures in the 70s and 80s will work they will have the entire cage at 89 degrees and be mad at us when they have problems.
....It is really interesting to see how different the people on this forum keep their BRBs. Some of us have very utilitarian caging and some people have elaborate planted cages.
Jeff

>>I've gone back and forth with lots of set ups for BRBs over the last 16 years. I've experimented with all sorts of hide boxes and substartes and I now have something that I think I'm going to stick with. I use a Western Fir Mixture which I get from Orchard Supply for the bottom of my cages. It's a reddish color and very attractive. I don't spray it or keep mos on it so I don't concern myself with how it reacts to water. In fact, I've given up on damp hide boxes all together for my adults. On the warm (84° F) end of the cage, I prop a piece of plywood on top of some short bricks. This gives a crevice-like hide spot that the animals tend to really like. On the cool end (65 - 75 depending) of the cage I place a large container of water that the snake can easily get into and out of. They really seem to appreciate the opportunity to soak and will take advantage of it often. Especially when they are in or approaching a shed. Other than that, I keep them very dry. I know this goes against what is commonly discussed on this forum but it works well for me and I live in a dry part of California. The exception is with babies. I make sure to lightly spray their cages once a day or so. I have lost young animals in the past because of dehydration.
>>
>>The only thing that concerns me from your e-mail is a constant temperature of 73°. I know that BRBs can take it cooler than other boas but, in my experience 84° is the magic number for digestion. This also may go against popular forum belief and if you aren't having any problems with regurgitation or respiratory infection then you may be O.K.
>>
>>I' at work now and don't have access to nice pictures. I'll try to post on eon the forum later if you're interested.
>>
>>Mike

Here's a pic of a typical adult BRB enclosure at my place. I removed the plastic plants so you can see the plywood hidespace (the snake's head can be seen peeking out) and the large water dish. You can also see the Fir mixture I've been using as a substrate. The inside dimensions are 36 Long x 24 wide x 22 tall. The insides are lined with formica. They really stand up well to urates. Flexwatt is mounted to the inside of the cage under the hidespot. I sandwich the flexwatt in between the cage floor and a piece of aluminum sheet metal. I use Helix DBS 1000 thermostats (I love them) to control the temperatures. The Helix is set to 84° F.

Jeff, thanks for the comments. It sounds like the your main message is to err on the cool side. I do agree with you. In fact, the more that I read your posts about cooler temperatures, the more I consider dropping them myself. There's no point in chancing a heat spike throughout the cage on an exceptionally warm day.

I also really like your pottery idea. It sounds like by soaking them, you get them to release moisture slowly over several days. This sounds more appealing to me than keeping a dank, wet hidebx in there. Maybe I'll go back to providing them with a little humididty after all.

Keep up the good posts,

Mike

Appreciate the info
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How about increasing your BRB's humidity? Maybe it would prefer to have a little higher humidity. I have never used soaked cotton balls or aspen mulch but, have use sphagnum moss in hides and cypress mulch as a substrate. The cypress mulch allows the BRB to burrow in and holds humidity well. It is cheap and can easily be scooped out with a dustpan for cleaning. It does not grow mold easily and smells earthy (at least I like the way it smells). I have seen several posts you have made within the last 3 or 4 months on different forums and suggest that you (if possible) post a few pics or respond in much detail so you will receive the most helpful information. We all want your baby Rainbow off to a good start.

Linda

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When the student is ready, the teacher appears. When the student is ready, the teacher appears. When the student is ready, the teacher appears. When the student is ready, the teachers appears.

I'll have those pictures next time
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