Reptile & Amphibian Forums

This is a fairly easy game to play. Just evaluate the possibilities and throw me your best answer!

The winner will recieve a prize! No kidding!

Have fun!!

....

Dang!
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roomates:
anery corn "zepplin"
normal corn "little bub"
eastern garter "auspicious"
broad-banded watersnake "washington"
Australian Cattle Dog "Pounder"

I am not a milksnake afficionado but is it a Temporalis or "Coastal Plains Milk?"......

For all I know it could be a gentilis....

John

Some Thayeri, or maybe a screwed up scarlet king?
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Happy Herping

im not possitive but im pretty sure its a milksnake...or a different arizona mountain king.

a coastal plain milksnake??

.....the snake hatched in captivity this summer.

It is a native EAST of the MS River, so throw out any Mt. kings or thayeri.

It is NOT a man-made hybrid, or intergrade.

It isn't a coastal plains milk, although that is a great guess.

Not a scarlet king either.

Thats my answer.

I go with Red Milksnake!
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0.1 Snow Corn "Hope"
0.0.1 Butter Corn "Butters" (South Park)
1.0 Redtail "Kilo"
1.0 Ball Python "Wilson"
1. Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Chunk" (Goonies)
.1 Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Peaches"

Red Milk Sanke - Lampropeltis triangulum syspila ?
Or
Eastern Milk - Lampropeltis triangulum triangulum ?

I'll guess central plains milk snake.
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Vichris

Vichris Variables

There are a couple of you that have come VERY close to guessing the best possible ID of this little critter. What makes it hard to define in the area it originated from is lack of understanding its natural history, and some possible influence from another ssp. who's range is close, but not so close.

I know I have confused you all now. Good...it makes you think.

TAKE NOTE.....it has an almost complete lack of ventrolateral blotches.

It has considerable black markings on the head without supra-ocular eye spots.

It occurs in the floodplain of the MS River....EAST of the River...IN the floodplain.....hint hint hint.

That should help you narrow it down to two ssp. What are they?

Oh yeah....throw out range maps. They are incomplete as far I'm concerned. There are still areas lacking data to support what current range maps depict as a species range.

by process of elimination it seems like it has to be an eastern milksnake, unless there is something undescribed that I am missing.

nevermind, someone above mentioned eastern milk... I say its some sort of intergrade milksnake, with scarlet king influence... perhaps the mississippi river version of the coastal plains milk.

amaura x syspila from NE LA or NW MS. It has the body pattern of an amaura, but red on the head like a syspila, and i don't care what you think of range maps, the two intergrade in that zone, or hybridize, what ever you want to call it. It may even be a syspila x triangulum from N AL for all I know, but it IS an intergrade in my opinion. In fact, it could be an intergrade from W. KY.

and you said east. NW MS then.

He never ruled out an intergrade completely. However, he DID say it wasn't a MAN MADE intergrade. Rather, perhaps an intergrade that occurred naturally.
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Will

Lampropeltis triangulum temporalis X Lampropeltis triangulum elapsoides. Woot?

scarlet king
Todd Hughes

Some say these don't exist but I'd go with a southern integrade perhaps an LA milk with Scralet king and or red milk influence?

Some of you have already guessed it.

Tricolor Brian, just like ZuesS said, I never said it wasn't an intergrade. I said it wasn't a manmade intergrade.

To the best of anyone's knowledge it is an intergrade between syspila and amaura. They are located in west-central and west MS. What is funny is current taxonomists claim that no amaura exists east of the MS.......well I think they do, and so do many other credible herpers and herpetologists.

So Brian, you were right, except it isn't from NW MS...you were awefully dang close though.

Look at how much black encompasses the head region, with the addition of red, along with the more rounded head shape. These little guys were hatched by ZuesS from a wc female that was VERY small. Which is more support for them being amaura intergrades. I really couldn't see a syspila breeding at her small size, but then again nature does as it wishes.

SO did you guys have fun!!??

Brian, as I promised you get a prize. You get a big fat CONGRATULATIONS!

I would have felt awful stupid if you had said it was a baby Scarlet Snake from GA. lol But, in all fairness, my guess did include several other localities so I wasn't really sure. But, since i'm writing the milk snake book, I'd like to have some photos of those snakes. On natural ground, of course- not shavings or towels in a tub. E-mail me if that's possible.

milkmanbrian@hotmail.com

Thanks, Brian Hubbs

Common Name:
Louisiana Milk Snake

Scientific Name:
Lampropeltis triangulum amaura

Size:

Hatchling: 5 - 8 inches
Adult: 16 - 34 inches

Dorsal:Usually 21 scale rows at the neck and midbody, reducing to 19 or 17 at the vent.
Ventral: 171 - 201 in males, 178 - 204 in females
Subcaudal: 39 - 53 in males, 39 - 55 in females
infralabials: 8 - 10 (usually 9)
Supralabials: 7 - 8 (usually 7)
Anal Plate: Single

Head:
The head is usually black except for white mottling on the supralabials, the internasals, and sometimes part of the frontals. Along the Mississippi River valley, genetic influence from syspila shows in the presence of red pigment on the heads of many specimens. In many places in central Texas, particularly near College Station, intergrades with annulata can be found that have mostly black snouts.

The answer was here the whole time!
http://www.kingsnake.com/king/triangulum/amaura.html

THANKS!

Louisiana Milk?