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HERE ARE MY FAV. PC SALMON'S THAT I OWN.
I CAN'T WAIT TO BREED THEM 8)
REGARDS
JAKE

Are those true columbian hypos? Because Salmons aren't true Columbians.....One of the many myths about them. These hypos aren't true columbians, just wondering because the fact that people label them incorrectly brings a certain sense of misunderstood facts about the beginnings of these animals.

sorry, pet hate of mine. Columbia is NOT a country!

The main part is that hypos aren't a true Colombian animal, yet every bozo thinks they are. Pays top dollar for them and then pays 5k for a sunset which is a two $250 snakes mixed. I love it. Next well be talking about the origins of the Arabesque, because that's not a COLOMBIAN either.

I would just like some more clarification on those $250 boas you spoke of?? Seems if you could get me a pair of those that could and would produce Sunsets, I would gladly pay you the $500 for the pair!!!

I doubt very much you could find that pair for even the $5000. !!!

What's up with the comment on the Arabesque?

I would think that every morph breeder knows the value of the animal has nothing to do with locality. It has to do with color and genetic reproducing capabilities!...Then supply and Demand!!

You can hardly produce Sunsets with any $250 boa, that is why they are so high priced.

Andy

to clarify his comment:

sunsets are the F2 product of breeding a hog island to a hypo, both of which can currently be found on todays market at around $200 - $500 respectively, and when bred together for 2 successive generations will give you a $5000 sunset from a roughly $500-$700 pair of boas.

i believe that is what he meant!

bc

Your statement.....

to clarify his comment:

sunsets are the F2 product of breeding a hog island to a hypo, both of which can currently be found on todays market at around $200 - $500 respectively, and when bred together for 2 successive generations will give you a $5000 sunset from a roughly $500-$700 pair of boas.

i believe that is what he meant!

bc

It is my understanding that the Sunsets are produced by a certain line of Hypo Hog boa, produced by DM breeders. I have seen alot of hypo hogs and I just doubt that any pair of hypo hogs can produce Sunsets....Just my 2 cents.

Andy

Sunsets (hypoXhog supers) were named by D&M, but a pairing of hypoXHogs can bring similar offspring (supers). So, if it looks like a rose and smells like one, should we not then call it one? Or do we make up a new name to denote the same animal? I would think too many names for the same animal would be redundant and may lead to confusion. I will, in all honesty, say that so far D&M has produced the nicest (cleanest) Sunsets, but that came from breeding very clean animals.
When I do buy a sunset (unless I make my own), it will be the cleanest I can find, which will probably be from D&M.
Now, I am also partial to the color in the Gulf Coast line...I wish I could have a Sunset with the Gulf Coast color and D&M clean!
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Delusions of Grandeur feed the EGO...

Sunsets originate from a deep orange phase hog bred to a panamainian hypo, these stay smaller than you garden variety hypos. The line it's self is unique because of this. You may be able to make a super hypo hog by pairing other boas but who knows what it will look like? or how big it will get? It's all an experiment unless it's from a proven line. Thats where their vale comes from IMO..
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Ed Lilley, www.constrictorsnw.com

I see. When I talked to Damian about them, he didn't mention the Panamanian hypo. My apologies.

Then I guess those hypoxhog supers bred with a garden variety CA hypo can be called...Sunrise...or some such.
And if the hypo that created the cross came from Columbian influence...then...maybe Sunshine hypos...

I just have to wonder how many names will pop up when everyone decides to name the hypoxhog supers they produce. I imagine it will become very confusing before long.

My D&M SunsetCross male is about 4 years old and still only 4.5 feet. A tiny booger. But, I know many D&M are much larger than he is.
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Delusions of Grandeur feed the EGO...

A friend of mines female that had the sunsets is only 5.5ft I would realy be suprised if she ever got over 6.

I'm not saying that no one could produce boas that look like that but, theres a good several years involved in getting to that stage.
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Ed Lilley, www.constrictorsnw.com

to buy them already "that way"... don't have the patience anymore to want to do all the line breeding.
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Delusions of Grandeur feed the EGO...

Is this a new line of hypo?

Actually it is a very old line of Hypo.She was a 1992 import. That is why Damion has his own line of hypos, all the hypos he produces are decendents of this female. If you contact Damion of D&M he can give you more info on her, but this Hypo line is a major ingredient of many colorful Hypos and Sunglows produced including Brock's Boids Coral Sunglows, and The Burkes Lipstick line. I hope this info helps. Vinnie

np

I just saw this today but I wanted to respond because I feel like lately there has been some confusion about this and we've been getting calls and questions about it. We have 3 hypos het albino from Damian. They are gorgeous hypos and our favorite hypos for sure. When combined with our double dose coral albino male, they make amazing sunglows. We have bred them to other albino males with average results, but for some reason the combination of the double dose coral albino to those particular hypos must be the ticket because the babies from that particular combination are always well above average.
However, I'm not sure what's going on here with the Panamanian Hypo thing. When we bought those three girls from Damian, my father picked them up personally. On different occasions actually, because at first he only got one. At that point, we saw the mother of the three that we have and we were told that she was a Salmon that was produced by (I don't want to involve any other names here) "The Salmon Breeder" and later acquired by Damian in a trade from a different big and very well known breeder. She was a very pretty Hypo, but clearly looked like a Salmon, not a Panamanian hypo. In addition, the 3 females that we have are no less than 8 feet long each and very thick...extremely inconsistent with being offspring that are 1/2 Panamanian. I think there is some confusion here because "The Salmon Breeder's" Salmon stock originated from Panamanian hypos but were then bred into the Colombians. So, if you trace back the Salmons, they all go back to Panamanian Hypos, however, I wouldn't consider them, or the mother of our hypos that we got from Damian to be Panamanian Hypos. Again, they are beautiful, but we were told that they were Salmon when we bought them, and when we saw the mother, she looked like a Salmon. Nothing like the Panamanian hypos that we see coming in lately. I just wanted to clear up any confusion because this seems to be a question we've been getting lately and I'm uncomfortable with misinformation being spread. Especially since our customers can expect that their sunglows or any babies from those litters will get HUGE!! lol Maybe the sunsets are different because of the hog influence, but the Hypos het albino that we have are monsters!
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Amanda Burke
Email
Burke Reptiles Website

But, from what I've seen f1 babies produced from a hypo bred to a hog result in the co-dom babies going for $550-$750 each, or more depending on color/speckling. I've not seen any for $200 each. But, I could have missed that one. Of course the co-dom siblings would be cheaper, but you could never get a sunset from those. So, such an f1 pair will probably cost around $1200-$1500, rather than $500-$700 per pair.
I would still love a pair of co-dom hypoXhogs for $400.
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Delusions of Grandeur feed the EGO...

A hypo bred to a hog does not make a sunset. Sunsets are probalby the most beautiful hypo out there (HypoXHogs too!). They don't tend to brown out like most other hypos in maturity...thank the hog for that.
I understand why the puritan locality breeders are offended by the cross mutations, but I don't feel they should be durogatory against those that are different. We should all be entitled to keep and breed what we deem beautiful. Besides, normal hypos can still be found for $1500 or more as a baby, so why not charge more for something that will be far more beautiful at maturity than a normal hypo? Something is only worth what someone is willing to spend on it... as is the case with all morphs. Supply and demand. If no one was willing to pay 5k for an animal, then price would soon reflect that. That it is still 5k after a couple of years speaks volumes.
And, I too want a pair of sunsets for $500!
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Delusions of Grandeur feed the EGO...

I see Colombians referred to as Columbians all over!

Not quite what I'd call sarcasm...but, not a big issue either!

Requires a combination of wit & irony,neither of which seem to be present.In my opinion the best representation of "Colombianized" hypos are found in several "orangetail" lines that have been selectively bred to South American "B.c.i.". As for "purity",I would imagine any parallel form of "hypo" found to occur from South American stock would likely be lumped into the "pastel" heap,and missed altogether.
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EMAIL

It would probably take you 20 years to do it. The selective breeding required to clean up a pair of $500 boas to a point that the offspring would look like the D&M Sunsets being produced now would so many generations Sunsets will be $500 before you accomplish it. Good luck with that project by the way(now thats sarcasim)!!!

Sorry I just thought people would look and see if I wrote that. I do know that salmons aren't true columbians, but I think some hypo/salmon can have a stronger look influence by the true hypo or columbian bci! And I think my salmons have that stronger influence expressed by rich's HI PINK COLUMBIAN cross with his Pink original Salmon. Just my opinion! 8)
I guess I shopuld of said salmon boa with a columbian influence
or something like that
LATER
JAKE

O.k., this has been a confusing thread. It went from salmons to sunrises. I just want one thing clarified. After reading this thread, it is my understanding that salmons are not just a morph, but a "hybrid" between a Colombian and Hogg Island boa. Is this the case?
by the way, I put quotations around the word hybrid because the two types of boas are not just the same species but the same subspecies.

Nice to see some new people posting....

As for Salmons and Hypos......

Look at it like this...

Rich Ihle & Jeff Gee...had the first hypos....Rich Ihle called them Salmon Boas, and Jeff Gee called them Orange tails.

They are basically a hypo-melanistic animal...which simply means a reduction of black pigment. This is a Co-dom or Dominant genetic strain of boas...

With Hog Island boas, they are the actual wild type or normal state of the animal, that is why hogs bred with normals cause a cross type animal.

On the other hand if you breed a Hypo or Salmon animal to a normal(wild type) you get approx. half a litter of Hypos or Salmons(depends what you wish to call them).

The other half the litter are just normals....of course I believe mutations can happen, but for the most part they are just normal looking and genetically normal boas.

Hope this helps, Andy Federico

AJF Reptiles