Reptile & Amphibian Forums

n/p

that depends on your meaning of "pure." If you mean, can an animal be bred to become its own breed, then yes it can become pure. There are many varieties of "cross breeds" of dogs that eventually became recognized as their own breed (ie: "pure." ) The same has occured with cat breeds, livestock, etc. Some breeds involved crossing two or more known breeds, some involved crossing two or more species (check out Bengal cats, Chausies, Savanahs, etc., and there is a "pure breed" of dog that includes wolf in its direct lineage. Also, cows have been crossed with Buffalos to create a breed they refer to as "Beefalos." The list goes on and on.)

It is when an animal can consistently reproduce itself, and does not require further introductions from outside lines, that it becomes a "pure breed."

Thank you. I'm really speaking more on a species DNA (nDNA, rDNA) leval. Some people say, "once a hybrid always a hybrid" but I think with selective breeding and testing you could breed back to "pure" species DNA. What do you think.
Oh btw, I keep and breed both TICA bengals and chausies (great hybrids!) Interesting that you would use those as examples

that is cool. I used to breed Chausies, and I bought my first F1 hybrid kittens before they were even called Chausies (long before TICA recognized them as a breed.) I also had a bengal, and I adore the Savanahs, the Serengetis, and the other hybrid breeds out there. Awesome felines. Alas, I don't have the space and time to devote to cat breeding (and now I am married, to a guy who hates cats no less, so it was not meant to be.)

Anyway, back to the question. There are two answers, of course, lol. Technically, yes, you can eventually breed out all genes that were contributed by one of the parental species. But realistically, I agree with those that say "once a hybrid, always a hybrid." The fact is, there are no tests for gene markers that tell you whether a snake is pure specie X or hybrid specie XY. Even if we had the entire genome mapped out for every specie of snake, how many people would pay to get the testing done to be sure there are NO genetic markers for another specie, and who is to say that the test will be totally reliable and that a population/specie of snakes will not vary just enough genetically to cause confusion? You certainly could not just "go by looks" due to recessive genes, codominant genes, inactive genes, etc.

I see hybrids as a totally seperate breed from the parental species involved. The point is to create a new breed, towards the status of "domestic snake." I am not sure why anyone would create a hybrid and then decide that I now want pure X specie offspring from these particular snakes in N generations. It would be cheaper, and a whole lot easier, to just buy new pure stock and start your lines over if you decide to change gears.

charlene

See http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=918203,920474 where some on this has already been covered.

Once a hybrid, it will always be a hybrid. I like to think of it as a bucket of toxin where even one molecule will give you the most horrible death you can imagine. Pour half of it out and refill with pure water. Mix it up. Repeat over and over again. (This is the case where the frog always jumps half way to the end of a log, so he can NEVER make it to the end no matter how long it takes.)

Statistically, you would eventually get down to 2 molecules, then one, then sero just playing the odds. BUT, would you ever risk drinking out of it for a nickel? I doubt it....lol.

The point being, thanks to crossovers, introns, etc. you are NOY inheriting a "package" of chromosomes. The chromosomes get mixed up. It's VERY common, but I don't know the exact frequency. Pretty dang high enough.

You all know what linked genes are, correct? Well, it is so common that genes on the same chromosome but FAR apart can almost be considered to NOT be linked and inherited separately. (so I've been taught, but I still scratch myself wondering HOW? when I think about it.....lol.) That makes it pretty darn common, dontcha think?

Anyway, back to topic on hand. Produce a hybrid and bred the babies together for a generation or three. You are likely to not have a SINGLE cromosome in ANY of those Fx generation offspring that have a chromosome that is pure one species or another thanks to the above mentioned reasons among many others.

BYW, I don't follow this forum - a link was referred to me. Sooooo, I might not check back to read replies, etc. None of the above is a weak possibility - it's a watered-down version of the best theories/hypothesis the guys that work with that stuff have figured out.
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it is theoretically possible to breed out all genes from one of the parental species, just as it is possible to breed out all of the genes of any specific ancestor whether hybrid or pure. The problem is knowing which individuals carry one or more genes from the ancestor in question. (Again, as I said, there are no tests to analyze the entire genome of each snake to be sure each and every gene from the opposing specie has been bred out.) With enough breeding, it will eventually happen, you just won't know when and in which individual.

Purists cringe at the thought of someone attempting to do this because of the "tainting" of their gene pools. You may never know just by looking at the snakes, but if people start to randomly breed hybrids back to parent species just to make "pure looking" hybrids, then there will be the inevitable "taint" of the pure gene pools. I just wonder "why" would anyone bother doing that? It adds to the animosity we receive from Purists, and it seems (to me) to serve no benefit....

While I respect the purist breeders right to keep their lines "pure", I want equal respect to breed the snakes of my choice. We should all be able to work together for the future of all captive reptiles, but I grow increasingly doubtful that will ever happen.