Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Listen, I am trying to determine more pricisely where in the cage your horned lizards are basking. I understand the cool side of the cage, this means with the human hand the dirt or substrate in the cage feels cold to the touch, but I am trying to determine if the little guys are actually sitting under the bulb literally, if so then the temp is probably around a 100 degrees. Or if they pull up close but not right under it. I have observed babies in many other lizard species bask on the outside ring of the basking light shadow cast by the light, but not right under it. Since these as we all have established are from a colder envirionment, even at 7,500 ft.in the deset such as Kingman Arizona where I have caught short horns it was no warmer than 80 or so and yet on the desert floor it was well close to the high 90's. So I believe that with rare occassion does it get up to a hundred in their natural envirionment. I was trying to determiine in my mind by where they actually spend most of there daytime activities basking if it is under, close, or slightly away from the bulb. Just curious, as I plan on working with these in the near future and I am putting together as much pertenant information from people who actually have them as well as already written info. I think with horned lizards tempratures are so important and many people don't give as much credence to as they should. SO I am trying to pick your brain a little, I have had these before for short periods of time but not long enough to say my techniques were successful or not, I hope in the future to keep these as captives over a long period of time and work on techniques and develop husabndry that is reliable and observable.
One other thing, at night, do they burry in the sand or find a place (a hide) to sleep in and not burry themselves or both. Many horned lizards will just dive into the loose sand and spend the night, while in Texas it is not unusual for them to spend the night in a bush, or under a bush and not dig in the ground as the ground is hard and would be impossible for them to dig into.........Cheers!!!
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Phrynosoma.com

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signature file edited. [phw 11/14/04]

i've done a little study for you.

i held a weighted string from the bulb and centered that red rock directly underneath it. though now i'm wondering if they might avoid the rock as an obstacle. i think i'll try a small trig or something tomorrow.

the first picture is day 1, first bask.

second picture day 2, first bask.

third picture day 2, an hour after second pic.

yes they do bury themselves at night. but not very deep, the tops of their backs and heads are usually still showing. i use play sand as a substrate.

unless they see this as an oabsacle, I would say you've sort of nailed the fact that they do not bask right under the bulb but on the outside parimeter. I think the bulb hot spot might be too hot for this specie but would easily be absorbed by a desert horned lizard. I hope Cable is also checking this out, as I think this is valuable and worth looking at here. I am thinking that temps in 80-90 degree range should be more akin to this specie but this is just a guess. You might try a little pearce of paper cut in a circle and see how they do with it. But I think from what I can see you've hit on this well. I assume after they bask then they roam around and from time to time will come back to the lamp area for thermoregulation. Thnaks for the experiment, I think short horns need more study even in some of these basic areas......Cheers!!! BY the way playsand has made an excellent substrate for most horned lizards, although I do believe if you find short horns in their habitat they often are around leaf littler, pine needles, and the like.......
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Phrynosoma.com

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signature file edited. [phw 11/14/04]

i moved the rock and placed a small orange gem-stone directly under the light. you can see the marker in the center, under one of the baby's heads. the hot spot was 92 degrees.

day 2, late basking.

These babies are so CUTE!!!!! I think I'm in love. I could look at these pictures all day long. PLEASE . . .MORE pictures . . lots MORE pictures!!!!!

I'm so impressed.

the gang's all here...

Hi. I'd be really interested in knowing if you see a difference between the mom who was wild and then bacame captive and her babies who were born into captivity. Are the babies less fearful or do they resort to "freezing" or hiding when when others walk by. Any other changes that you notice between wild or captive born HL. Once you said some had pretty distinct personalities, can you share anything about that?

LOVE your photos. Wish you had a calender full of photos of them!!

the babies are a little more bold than the mother. the mom gets picky about eating if there are lots of people around. the babies though don't seem to mind too much.

as far as personalities... one is a pig, one loves cold slow ants, but is afraid of them when they run. another looks at it's prey for minutes before attacking and one like to bob it's head more than the others. all sorts of things.

pictures i took today of the mother:

So it looks like they will bask directly under the light, however the temp is 92 not a 100 degrees as I suspected. It looks like some of the others are on the outside parimeter. SO I would say anything between 85-90 or so would be an excellent basking temp for these guys. It would be interesting to see where mom goes with basking as well and the temps she is drawn to. ANother thing to consider, the ambient temp of the cage would be a lot less than 90 degrees. In otherwords the temsp outside in san anontio or even Arizona at 95 degrees may have a high ambiet air temp in the 90's, where as in a cage such as yours or mine, the ambient temps might be 80-85 while the bask spot is 92 degrees.
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Phrynosoma.com

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signature file edited. [phw 11/14/04]