Reptile & Amphibian Forums

is this stuff really cracked up to be? like is it better panacur? b/c i have no idea where to get panacur in any reasonable quantity and this seems to be the commonly sold substitute. basically i want to treat some wc tortoises and lizards and if i bought the stuff i'll probably also treat my frogs for goos measure. it seems like they're interchangeable, is that the case?

What is the active ingredient in parazap? I"m not familiar with this product.

What I can offer is my opinion on deworming in general. Are these long term captives? Freshly wild-caught animals? (Can you still legally collect tortoises? Imports?) Generally it is more important to set up your animals in as comfortable conditions as possible. Stress is more important to deal with than parasites. Secondly, identifying the parasites present is more helpfull in the long run, and only treat animals showing symptoms of parasitism.

Deworming medications are prescription drugs. I'll always recommend their use under vet guidance only. I realize it's used otherwise and doing so is under your own (and your animal's risk). Don't ever use products containing ivermectin or it's related drugs in turtles or tortoises as it is lethal.

Ian

ps, don't use it on your frogs. For the short story, they'll more than likely die as opposed to benifiting from some unseen cure.

parazap is herbal and (supposedly) completely safe for most animals including herps and birds. I cannot find my jar, but i have had luck with it in the past....except with tapes. Nothing kills those unless you have an rx. The only problem with self medicating with parazap is not being sure what parasites your animal has.
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I'm not a fan of herbal and holistic medicine in general, although I do see it has it's place. Most people swing entirely east or west medicine and don't favour much of a mix.

This might be a case where a herbal remedy may be of more benefit. It might be less harsh than a real medication. I wouldn't expect elimination, but it may assist in control until the animal is older.

I would still stand by my above advice first and foremost until you have some ingredients to share though... just because it's herbal doesn't mean it can't be harmfull.

Ian

the website, www.parazap.com (i think), talks about how it kills parasites and their eggs, which i guess panacure doesn't do. i have a real variety of animals from wc to cbb to ltc and i have never treated them, but since i deworn my dog yearly i thought it would be a good idea to to that for my other guys and i don't really want to use something as harse (not tto mention expensive) as panacure. the information i have seen so far is pretty much inconclusive so it's tough to go either way at this juncture

You deworm your dog because he's out and about, on walks, meeting other animals (or their poop)during these walks, and well, being a dog. This all equals a lifestyle that is high risk for obtaining new parasites.

Wild caught herptiles, once settled into captivity are in their own little world. Outside access is limited to their enclosure (in the case of outdoor tortoises). This all means that what the reptile has is what he will continue to have. If he's healthy, he will continue to be healthy.

If you want to avoid harsh products and cost, avoid both products. If you have a problem with parasites that may show as weight loss, anorexia, soft stool, then take a fresh stool sample to your vet clinic and have it examined for the culprit so the appropriate medication can be used. With these symptoms, cost should be secondary to care.

The parazap website: You have to realize it is trying to sell parazap. Don't use it for your information. Panacur has it's place, it works for what it is prescribed for, it doesn't work for anything else. Parazap may work, it may not, and it may be harmfull. Please realize that the herbal industry has expanded much faster than the laws surrounding their sale. Thus, a product doesn't have to pass any safety trials before it's distribution like a prescription drug.

Your intentions are all good, but in this case, your herps all seem to be happy and healthy, so doing nothing seems best.

Ian

i mean the worm wood is probably distilled or something in the absinthe so i'm not real worried about that. i was figuring to use it as a component of the qurantine period for new wc animals, but i'll admit that while i was at it i was probably going to go threu all my wild caught stuff...as far as find vet approval that is something that i'll definitely have to do before any purchase is made, but it would have to be done by an independent verifier, if anyone knows of an article that'd really help

I've read the information on the Parazap.com site and I am a proponent of herbs in mammals (as a repellent), but most vermifuge drugs have better efficacy. As far as the ingredients, they do repel various helminth(worm) parasites, but I've yet to see proof that these ingredients kill the ova(eggs) of all these species of parasitic worms.

I have yet to see an independent scientific study of Parazap and its efficacy in the elimination of worm parasites in cold-blooded animals. I have heard nothing negative of the product and some positive results on larval stages, but would be questionable about total elimination of all larval and egg stages.

Hopefully, someone could post an independent scientific study of this product.

Excerpt from Toxicology of Herbal Medicines (VET-398)
Western Veterinary Conference 2004
Greg L. Tilford, Herbalist
Animal Essentials, Inc.
Hamilton, MT, USA

........Herbs that may Produce Hepatotoxic Activities if Misused, and have the Potential of Compounding Preexisting Liver Disease:

Avoid internal use of:
Chaparral
Wormwood (Artemesia spp.-esp A. absinthum)
Kava Kava
Pennyroyal
Tansy (toxic, toxic, toxic!)
Comfrey (FDA says "no-- period."
Lavender
Any essential oils--especially in undiluted form!

Use with Caution:

Goldenseal, Oregon grape, or any other plant that contains berberine.

Remember-- once a substance passes through the digestive tract and enters the body, the liver is the first line of defense. The liver is designed to take a great deal of abuse, but too much of anything constitutes the potential for poisoning and impact upon the kidneys.

Herbs that possess neurotoxic principles may compound existing problems of the nervous system:

Wormwood (esp. Artemesia absinthum)
Pennyroyal (toxic to cats-esp. the essential oils)
Parsley seed
Nutmeg (very toxic to cats!)
Cloves (very toxic to cats!)
Damiana (May cause cyanide poisoning-Avoid altogether)
Rosemary (in herb form-maybe. Essential oil may trigger or worsen convulsions)

.......

Excerpt from Clinical Applications of Herbs
Western Veterinary Conference 2002
Susan G. Wynn, DVM Marietta, GA, USA

.......
Parasites

Wormwood (Artemisia annua): an extract of artemisia reduces lesions associated with coccidia in chickens (Allen, 1998)

Berberine containing herbs: (goldenseal, oregon grape): Berberine inhibits growth of giardia and certain species of amoeba (Kaneda, 1991)

Ginger (Zingiber officinale): ginger has been shown to kill the nematode Anisakis, found in fish, which may be why ginger is traditionally served with sushi! (Goto, 1990)

Garlic: whole garlic extract inhibited giardia in vitro with an IC50 at 0.3mg/ml (Harris, 2000), (Ankri, 1999) .

Turmeric (Curcuma longa): extracts of turmeric have shown activity against some nematodes (Kiuchi, 1993).

Pumpkin seed: has been used for tapeworms, and may have approximately 50% efficacy against some species. I haven't had experience with use of this herb, but would suggest ground raw or toasted whole seeds.

Papaya (Carica papaya): papaya latex has shown activity against helminth infection in mice, against bird ascarids, and exhibited 100% kill of ascarids in pigs at a dose of 8gm/kg, and (Satrija, 1995) (Satrija, 1994), and has been suggested to be effective in dogs and cats. The dose used in this study would be difficult to administer to pets.

Indian Long Pepper (Piper longum): An ayurvedic herbal combination containing long pepper significantly reduced giardia numbers in stools of human patients and improved clinical signs associated with the infection (Agarwal, 1997). .......

See next post for a summary

Ian

Wormwood appears to have a repellent nature to some helminths. Moreso the benefits of this herbal medication is it's ability to soothe the damage done by said parasites. There is no indication or study that suggested wormwood kills adult, larvae, or egg stages of parasitic worms.

After researching this product, I would say it's may be usefull as a control or a limitation factor, but complete irridacation probably won't be seen.

Also stated are some side-effects and contraindications that are typical of a prescription medication. Neurotoxic and hepatotoxic.

Because of this, I would treat this, and all other medications as with caution and whether legally necessary or not, use as prescribed by a veterinarian. If you would like to use wormwood or know more about it, I suggest contacting a veterinarian who practices holistic medicine (and if your lucky, works with herptiles regularly too ).

Ian

If I come across any further factual information on this drug I'll be sure to post it in this thread or a new one

After rethinking all that I've read, and reading the parazap website thoroughly, it is clear that this medication does approximately the same as proper husbandry. If your herptile is happy and healthy it will eliminate parasites on it's own. Wormwood's properties assist this, but I wouldn't stretch any claim further than that.

The website: is clearly a propoganda sales pitch. While herbal holistic medications are generally dilute, the effects are minimal, and thus side-effects are equally minimal, the claim that an "all natural product" cannot be overdosed is insidious.

Take it for what you want, you'll probably not hurt your pets if you use it in moderation, but don't put all your eggs in one basket so to speak

Ian

ps, Elderly, previously sick, new imports, dehydrated, or otherwise ill animals should not be given any medications without your veterinarian. This is a must. Specifically with wormwood pre-existing liver damage among other contraindications may leave your herptile very ill after usage.