Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Some people want to know if the market is ripe for a crash, some want to know if this is a good investment. What question would you ask about this crazy Ball Python market?

Personally, I'd ask, how long can it last?
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Jay A. Martin
Jay Martin Reptiles

Who knows, but worrying about it will only give me more grey hair than I already have. Can we also ask how much better it could get? New morphs are driving up prices and should maintain the prices of some of the older morphs. I guess I am a glass is half full kind of guy.
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Jared Douglas

Thats what I want to know

Hi all,

I just spent the weekend at Ralph's, and there is one thing that really bothers me about the ball python market.

My beef is about Ralph - It's impossible to have a conversation with that man that lasts more than 30 minutes without being interrupted by a phonecall, email, snail mail or visit by someone who wants to drop at least 10K with him. It's quite rude, really, LOL!

So, my question is, could someone please break it to Ralph that the sky is falling before my next visit? Then, maybe I can talk to the man for an hour uninterrupted! .

The market is alive and well, folks!

Christy

Christy,

I was visiting the weekend before you were. Ralph is a busy guy! I was more concentrating on what I wanted to buy.....and all the stuff Ralph didn't want to sell but I wanted in my collection....lol.

Corey

Stop calling, Corey haha!

I was the one screwing up things for Corey... Sorry Corey, I even made you sit in the back seat... (thought to self, what a jerk!). Seriously though, Corey it was great to catch up with you while you were there and maybe in a year or two, I'll buy a het. for every homozygous pair you buy from Ralph. Go breed more Het. Red combos!

Take Care!
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Chad Schwinn
ChadSchwinnReptiles.com
Email Me!

Chad,

Do you really think I care what seat I sit in in a vehicle???..lol! If I really wanted the front seat I would have sat in the front. I'm more of a back seat kind of guy anyways...lol! I enjoyed having you over at Ralphs while we went through the collection and on our "journey" around town.

Good luck with your breeding season.
Regards,
Corey

Uhhuh...the market is alive and well! ....for RDR.

Going to RDR and thinking the entire market is doing fantastic is the equivalent of going to Ernest & Gallo, returning and stating 'this wine business is booming!'

Did anyone go to the Tinley Show? Did anyone see how many Ball Python morphs were for sale????!!! WOW! And those are just the dealers in the midwest...yowsers.

All I know is my experience as a "small fry" in this business has been nothing but good. I sold this year's animals and I will sell next season's.

In the meantime I'm just going to enjoy my animals!

Christy

That is fantastic Christy. I think you may be one of the lucky ones

Just the breeders in the MIDWEST????? There were breeders at the show from ALL OVER the country. If you kept the "program" book from the show, check all the vendors and see where they're from. They're definitely not just from the midwest. Then, if you get bored, figure in the cost for these breeders to be at the Tinley show. It's not cheap and they wouldn't do it if they weren't making any money. Not trying to be rude or anything, I just thought it was pretty misleading to say the show was swamped with balls and that's just the midwest breeders. Take care!

Paul

That is a great point. How many people on the forum bought at the Tinley park show? I find it hard to imagine that with so many vendors having all of the same morphs and so many individuals of that morph that this price structure could continue. I only saw one sale of a high end morph (nice Pied) the entire day I was there Saturday ( 5 hours). It appeared to be between two dealers.

The other thing is you see the same morphs for sale every day on KS from the same people, and these are some of the same people saying how great business is!!!!!

The other thing I have thought about lately is that it seems that the dramatic emergence of new morphs ( and the pace they are coming at) has only given potential buyers ( or investors as so many like to refer to them as!) more pause when deciding what to buy rather than fueling a buying frenzy.

Oh, yah I saw ralphie this weekend too! He put a nice shine on my... um... hmmmm. You talk like he is a king and you would do ANYTHING to please him, and you seem to take every shot to make everyone know you happened by his place, or "know" him. Personally, I have never met him, but from the stuff he writes he sounds like a turkey. Yah, he is doing well, because he pumps hundreds of thousands of dollars into it all. People like that can afford good marketing, and it makes sense to pay for that marketing. Little Ralphie says "I dont have to post ads in the KS classifieds to sell snakes", yet every other time I load the page his banner is at the top. Even down to things like his big poopoo journal entries count as a good source of marketing. He is a smart man, I will give him that. If I had $10k to market my snakes I would clean house too, but why spend $10k to sell $15k worth of snakes?? Would you buy a soda from a bum on the street corner for $0.50 or go to wal-mart and buy it for $0.55? You are just doing so well because you are the bum ringing the bell in front of wal-mart selling soda for $0.51.

Everyone else seems to be having a hard time moving anything. I cant even move CB normals at shows. The market has problems. Every year it floods more and more.

Ben

The market doesnt exsist!!! Its a figment of my imagination. You can have a "market" even if 1 (one) person is selling something. Its a market.

As far as Ralph goes, he gave me my start and taught me how to keep and breed these animals - even though my total purchases from him in five years are somewhere in the range of $600 - and for the first two or three years of him giving me advice I didnt buy anything. Quite possibly there are other "big guys" that would have helped me in a similar way (maybe that is one of the reasons they are the 'big breeders",) but in my case it was Ralph, and he certainly didn't do it for money. So, I give credit where it's due. What I say about Ralph or anyone else who has helped me is from the heart - nothing wrong with showing a little appreciation to a friend. I'm no more ashamed of being appreciative to Ralph than I am ashamed of wanting to make money by breeding balls.

As far as doing anything to please Ralph goes, the only one I am really out to please is Jesus Christ. If I think Ralph is full of crap I about something important I would have no problem telling him (in my sweet, diplomatic way, of course tee,hee).

My best,

Christy

That sounds like Ralph. I have not purchased anything, ever from Ralph but still he replies to my emails. Just doing good business.
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Jay A. Martin
Jay Martin Reptiles

I didnt say Ralph was a bad guy, because infact I dont know him. Perhaps I would have known him if he would have replyed to one of 2 or 3 emails I had sent him over the last year asking for pricing of different animals from his Birthing Records... but thats OK, I understand... he is too busy feilding your questions, and really dosnt give a darn if he sells me a snake or not... RIGHT?

So basically you admit you have huge bias tword Ralph and how he does things, because he tought you how to do all these things. The fact is, he tells you all his mubojumbo about how no market exsists and what not. How many snakes over $5000 have to had to sell this year? How fast did they move? Where did you advertise said snakes? Was it big shows where they where on Ralphs table? Was it a big show that perhaps would cost someone 1100 miles away around $2000, and 2 vacation days to get to... so they can MAYBE sell a $5000 snake? You could have many reasons why you are doing well, not limited to you only really having very few high dollar to sell.

Dont take this the wrong way, I dont know you personally, this is just a discussion. I am trying to point out that you MIGHT have a bias tword the market and what doing well means. Then again, you might just be doing well, and the rest of us are just morons who can seem to get anything sold.

One way to look at Ralph being nice is he is investing time in you so you will buy animals. He could really be in it for the hobby, and just love to talk to people about snakes and help them out... but you cant forget that you go over there and put a spit shine on his ego... which some people just love... thats one motive for him to be so nice... or maybe he figures you will eventually buy a $5000 snake. Personally, I would be someone best buddy if they wanted me to be if I thought they where going to buy some of my 95% profit animals. I would cry all the way tot he bank.

Ben

I would like to know where to order a Magic 8-Ball online.

Chris
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mean people suck

Here ya go Chris....

http://www.collectorsparadise.com/magic8balls.html

Jason

Personally, I would like to know why my balls keep doing this:

Jason

I would ask why is the ball python market is so artificial!

Brain A.

Higher quality with more reputable people then this discussion would be put in perspective. Name one market that is better then the potential of the Royal Python market? If you can name one, then that is the market you should be in. The most important thing to know about this market is that in order to be part of the actual market you must work at it and you must create a reputation that makes your part of the market valid and productive. Who said that you should have anything handed to you without your needing to put in the time and effort and yes the money to make your contribution to the market effective in order for you to actually make your efforts worth while? If you decide to be in this market then you need to "feed them and breed them", establish a reputation and work hard to achieve your goals. If this is not your thing than this is not your market.
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Royal Variations

Many a false step is made from standing still.

I agree 100%...

Tom

np
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Royal Variations

Many a false step is made from standing still.

Whats the big deal? If we are all just doing it for the love of the animal - the thrill of the hatch - then who really cares what the market does? Why does there have to be a market?
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Tosha

"Nihil facimus sed id bene facimus"

7.33.0 Ball Python (Harry and Fluffy and gang)
1.0.0 Angolan Python (Anakin Skywalker)
0.0.1 Green Tree Python (Verdi - yeah I know but my kids love the book)
0.2.0 Feline (Pippen and Pandora)
0.0.1 Desert Tortoise (Pope John Paul aka JP )
2.2.1 Fish (1,2,3,4)
0.0.2 frogs rescued from pool skimmer

Two words why ''Gre ed''

thousands of dollars and you invest years in projects to establish rare animals that you intend to sell, then you are not "just in it for the animals", Hopefully you are in it for the animals and for creating beautiful animals that also make enough money that you can further the projects that interest you while allowing you to purchase more animals or invest in your future. Concerning the animals, if they are worth more money then perhaps people will take better care of them in their collections and perhaps they will not treat the animals as just a ball python. Let's admit that the industry that has brought countless ball pythons into the pet trade for many years has also not always respected the animals which has lead to the demise of far to many innocent ball pythons that were under valued, under nourished, under appreciated and priced at such low prices that unless you really appreciated them, they were just another ball python, to many people. Thank God they are valuable and that people now breed them if for no other reason than to produce robust animals that are great pets and great for breeding projects. Royal Pythons and money are both good things if respected and appreciated. Greed and the intent to just make a quick buck off of the animals becuase they are popular is in my opinion, BS.
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Royal Variations

Many a false step is made from standing still.

Well said Kyle! Saddly 9 out of 10 breeders only work with regius for the bottom line. Seems quantity prevails over quality for this market.

np
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Royal Variations

Many a false step is made from standing still.

And there's nothing wrong with doing this for the money. (As long as your first priority is the animals.) The opportunity to combine career and passion is a blessing. I say go for it.

Just remember...profits are a priviledge, not a right.

Chris
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mean people suck

Hi Tosh,

I am not in this for the pure love of the animals. If I were, I'd have a pair of normals and breed them every other year. Yes, I do love the animals and have been facinated with snakes since I was a little girl. I also love many other kinds of animals - most of which cannot be bred for to produce an income. But for me, having morphs is very much about money.

I want this to be a hobby that generates a side income for me, and as far as I'm concerned there is no shame in that. Does this make me greedy? No. I have done a lifetime of volunteer work benefiting kids and animals. My "real job" is Youth for Christ, working with teens for a pittance - if I were a greedy person I guarantee this would not be my vocation!!! What I envision is that income from ball pythons will actually help me do what I really want to do (work with kids), by allowing me to keep such a low paying job.

I honestly don't see anything wrong with keeping ball pythons in order to make money off of them. My animals receive top notch care, and I really don't think they are concerned whether I keep them for love, money, or both.

There is nothing noble about keeping balls "just for love" and nothing detestable about breeding them for money. The only real question is do the animals in your charge receive the respect, attention, and care they deserve.

My best,
Christy

Very well put!
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RicK @ BbI

Ball Boutique,Inc.
Proud sponsor of this forum

np
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Royal Variations

Many a false step is made from standing still.

Like having your cake and eating it too!
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RicK @ BbI

Ball Boutique,Inc.
Proud sponsor of this forum

LET THEM GO why keep them caged up. The people I see complaining are mostly people who want morphs that dont have any.

Mike

np
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Royal Variations

Many a false step is made from standing still.

Few and far between; I wish you the best of luck.

Al

Thanks .

nm

Well, I have a couple of pastel males, a 800g yearling mojave male I just got, a ghost, and I'm loaning a girl each out to a friend with a spider and another with a pied. I'm also hoping to prove out some possible hets. And maybe evey produce a granite albino . So, I guess I'll see what happens!

Christy

I have about the same number of girls and got confused in the thread LOL!

I have 5 ole plain jane females, 7 het females and the rest are just pretty and/or unique snakes that I'll probably breed somewhere down the line to try to prove - cause everyone knows I'm a sucker for a pretty snake.

Basically I've got this years breeders, next years breeders and then breeders for the following year - I'll breed 7-10 of them each year. Gives my breeders a year or two off doesn't wear out my males.
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Tosha

"Nihil facimus sed id bene facimus"

7.33.0 Ball Python (Harry and Fluffy and gang)
1.0.0 Angolan Python (Anakin Skywalker)
0.0.1 Green Tree Python (Verdi - yeah I know but my kids love the book)
0.2.0 Feline (Pippen and Pandora)
0.0.1 Desert Tortoise (Pope John Paul aka JP )
2.2.1 Fish (1,2,3,4)
0.0.2 frogs rescued from pool skimmer