Reptile & Amphibian Forums

This is wierd. I just got home and my baby concinnus is dead.

I fed it two appropriately sized rosies last night, which it ate with gusto. I just found the baby dead with a fish partially sticking out of it's mouth. Obviously it attempted to regurg, the fish got stuck, and blocked the esophagus long enough to cause suffocation. I'm just baffled.. the temps are fine, mid 80's, I just don't get it?

Anyone have any thoughts??

Thanks,

Bryan
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"Nothing happens in contradiction to nature, only to what we know of it."

It is hard to say with out any tests. It could have been a number of things. I have had a few recently myself. I suspect it might be an internal pathogen such as virus or parasite. Internal parasites will build up in a captive animal and cause health problems and even death but I do not think this should be the case with a baby snake. It is probable something had irritated or ulcerated its gastric lining. I is possible it could have been one of those snakes that simply failed to thrive due to genetic or other defects. Worse case scenario is a disease called crypto. Once it manifests it is untreatable and generally fatal. It is spread by contact. The only disinfectant found to be effective is ammonia (10% solution I believe). A lot of people will attribute most regurgitation deaths to crypto but I do not believe this is the case. Symptoms of crypto include regurgitation (often a day or two later), abdominal bulging due to hardening of the gastric lining, anorexia, and listlessness. If you have other herps make sure you research and practice strict hygiene in all aspects of your husbandry and use quarantine measures where appropriate. Hopefully it is an isolated incident.
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Randy Hallman

Hallman is absolutely correct.

I don't think the regurg was a cause of death, but moreso a result of the last few moments. Snakes of complete tracheal rings. Something stuck in the esophagus will not collapse the trachea, thus breathing is not impaired.

Ian

Sorry for your loss but it sounds like a freak occurrence. Perhaps it over-ate and decided to expel some items and the fins of the fish lodged itself in a bad spot and it blocked the airway. Normally a healthy strong snake can adjust to remedy this problem with head thrashing and so on, but this fellow might not have been in prime condition? In any case, hope the best.

Dan

Thanks.

Yesterday my female infernalis refused food which is unusual for her but I didn't think much of it... but even more worrying the male regurged just now, 24 hours after eating.

From what I'm hearing crypto is not treatable at all? I typically move my garters to a feeding container since I keep some of them together in pairs. Since all of my animals have (until last week) been the picture of health I never worried too much about disease transference. I have this sick feeling in my stomach that I may end up putting my whole collection down.
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"Nothing happens in contradiction to nature, only to what we know of it."

Did you get a new snake recently?

Coccidia and other parasites can also lead to regurgitation if levels get too high. They, unlike crypto, are usually treatable, so it would be worth having your snakes checked out.

-Alice

Thanks, I've got an appt for Saturday to get fecals done.

Tom, now that you mention it there are two possible culprits (and I'm fessing up to these so that anyone else reading may learn something that could help them):

I did have a wc garter in my collection for a very brief period but it was kept away from my captive herps and I was careful not to handle it without gloves. This was back in June.

Second scenario- I just realized that the person that I last got snakes from had one that I was supposed to get die suddenly before I got it. This was also back in June/July. I'm going to get a hold of them and advise them to check thier collection. More out of concern than anything else. The person I got the snakes from is very reputable and surgical in thier husbandry practices but the possibility does exist that the pathogen came from thier collection.

I feel a little stupid if either of those events caused this. I thought I was very careful at the time and when, months later I saw no signs of ill health, I suppose I relaxed my guard by feeding them in a common container. Can it really take months for something like coccidia or crypto to manifest?

Either way I'm revamping my quarantine procedures.

Thanks for the input guys.
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"Nothing happens in contradiction to nature, only to what we know of it."