Reptile & Amphibian Forums

i have been keeping several species of herps for the past 20 years.i have never once ran into mites.i dont know if i am lucky or not but considering all the stories i hear,i assume i am.now mites have never really been a concern and i dont plan on introducing anything new into my collection anytime soon,but considering i am now,for the first time experimenting with keeping my herps in natural,planted vivariums,if i ever did get a mite problem,i dont think i would be able to control it short of destroying the vivarium and starting over.i have a lot invested and i would really hate to do that plus i am in the process of building another twice as large.now like i said,i dont plan on buying any new herps anytime soon and my current collection is clean as a wistle.what do you think the chances are of me getting an infestation through petstore bought mice or crickets??i never even knew it was possible but now i read it is.frozen should take care of that but i have one snake that just wont go for it.what do you think??am i pretty safe?i think i would cry if i saw a mite.

I would think that mite infestation while possible is unlikely even with petstore mice. Snake mites are particular to snakes, and will hitch a ride to get to a new host, but I don't think the mice in the petstore will be really strong potential carriers. The mice in my petstore are kept completely seperate from the reptiles, so I wouldn't worry about that. Freezing definitely would stop any problems, but if you have one that won't eat them, what can you do?
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1.0~amel corn~C.S.
1.3~Aztec Okeetee corns~Coatl,Maya,Acatl,Tepin
0.1.1~Green tree python~Tempest, Whisper
0.2~Rhodesian Ridgebacks~Akilah, Ona
1.0~Black fat cat~Topper
3.0~Horses~Zaarah,Galliano,Achilles.....

nothing really but worry.i have recently heard of these things called pretatory mites.you can buy them from natural pestcontrol websites.youre supposed to introduce then to your garded(or vivarium in my case)and they are supposed to be mites that eat other mites.they are mainly used for spider mites in gardens but i have heard of people using them for herps.although they are not supposed to be used if you already have a large infestation as they would only keep numbers down,but if introduced before or in the early stages,they are supposed to work really well.even if i dont have any mites for them to eat,they are supposed to be able to eat other things like springtails and wood mites(i have lots of)and also survive on decaying matter just breeding and waiting for snake mites to arrive.i may order some as a precaution.all this mite talk has gotten me wanting to inspect my snake right now.like i said i have never had mites before.anyone ever have mites on their chondros?? any idea where they came from?? can you reccomend the best ways to look for them?? how did you get rid of them?

People tend to get a snake that is already infested with mites. Wild caught tend to come in with them, or people who keep their animals together and one has them, or, they introduce an infested animal into their collection without the proper quarantine procedures. Occasionally, mites can come in on a food or bedding source, but I haven't heard of that being a primary cause usually. If your collection is clean, you shouldn't have any worries. I've never had mites in my collection either,and I'm careful to check new animals and quarantine them apart from my established animals. There are various mite remedies available to treat the animal and enclosure, and I've heard of people using vegetable or olive oil on the snakes as well as hanging pest strips. The latter takes a lot of care to avoid causing neurological damage to the snake from the fumes. I wouldn't go there if I were you, unless the snake is removed from the enclosure and treated seperately with reptile mite spray or something similar.
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1.0~amel corn~C.S.
1.3~Aztec Okeetee corns~Coatl,Maya,Acatl,Tepin
0.1.1~Green tree python~Tempest, Whisper
0.2~Rhodesian Ridgebacks~Akilah, Ona
1.0~Black fat cat~Topper
3.0~Horses~Zaarah,Galliano,Achilles.....

I've had my Biak locale for a little over half a year now, and he just recently got a couple mites on him. I soaked him in warm water, and placed him in a new cage. I used cypress mulch bedding w/ sevin dust mixed in, and as far as I can tell the mites are completely gone (there were only a couple to begin with). As long as you keep things clean and such, it shouldn't be a problem. Admittedly, I had slacked off a bit on cleaning recently and I'm certain that's the reason.

Whenever I replace bedding, or have to add a significant amount, I add a little sevin dust and mix it in. It's not as useful with my chondros as with my balls, corns, and kings, but it does seem to help out a lot.

Chris
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1.1.0 Irian x Jungle Carpet Pythons
1.2.0 Black Rats- Robert, Cady, Kylie
1.2.0 Albino FL Kings-Nick, Jessica, Ashley
1.1.0 Crimson Corns-Kane, Ruby
0.1.0 Het-Crimson Corns-Lola
0.1.0 White-Sided/Pos Het Albino Black Rat-Lita
1.0.0 Albino White-sided Black Rat-Rey
0.1.0 Albino/Het White-sided Black Rat-Stacey
1.2.0 Creamsicle Corns-Vince, Trish, Torrie
0.1.0 Fl King-Bonnie
1.0.1 Green Tree Pythons Biak-Brandon, Aru-Orochimaru
1.0.0 Flame X Blood Bearded-Ruff
2.4.0 Ball Pythons-Kritsy, Gretchen, Alexis, 100% het for albino balls- Naruto, Hinata, 66% het VPI Axanthic-Sasuke
0.1.0 Red-tail Boa-Xena
0.0.1 Savannah Monitor-Izzy

im curious where you think the mites came from??you said that you slacked off and didnt keep the cage as clean you you have liked to and you feel thats why you got the mites.i dont think the fact that your cage was dirty had anything to do with it.mites are more than happy to live with a snake in a clean cage.cleaning may keep numbers down but the mites came from somewhere,not from dirt.have you any idea,why after a year,your snake now got mites??do you have any other animals in your collection?? any new animals? this is the type of stories i am interested in.my snakes are clean and i dont plan on introducing anything new,but if i ever got mites from something like bedding,live food,ect,it would be devistating.im now making the switch to house all my chondros in rather elaborite,live planted vivariums,that if ever became infected with mites,would basically have to be burned.

I did recently purchase 2 carpet pythons, but when inspected no mites were found. also, none of my other animals got mites. I've had snakes get mites before, and it just seems to kind of happen. I've never been able to pinpoint it to anything other than it usually happens when I get really busy and can't do as much cage maintenance as I'd like to. As I said, I just mix sevin dust into the bedding, but with your set-up I don't see that as being a good idea. I have noticed that a snake soaked in warm water won't have many mites for long. For whatever reason, they don't seem to like it. so, being a highly humid enviroment in the mid to upper 80's, if kept clean I don't see mites being a problem for you.

Chris
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1.1.0 Irian x Jungle Carpet Pythons
1.2.0 Black Rats- Robert, Cady, Kylie
1.2.0 Albino FL Kings-Nick, Jessica, Ashley
1.1.0 Crimson Corns-Kane, Ruby
0.1.0 Het-Crimson Corns-Lola
0.1.0 White-Sided/Pos Het Albino Black Rat-Lita
1.0.0 Albino White-sided Black Rat-Rey
0.1.0 Albino/Het White-sided Black Rat-Stacey
1.2.0 Creamsicle Corns-Vince, Trish, Torrie
0.1.0 Fl King-Bonnie
1.0.1 Green Tree Pythons Biak-Brandon, Aru-Orochimaru
1.0.0 Flame X Blood Bearded-Ruff
2.4.0 Ball Pythons-Kritsy, Gretchen, Alexis, 100% het for albino balls- Naruto, Hinata, 66% het VPI Axanthic-Sasuke
0.1.0 Red-tail Boa-Xena
0.0.1 Savannah Monitor-Izzy

The snake won't go for frozen thawed? Are you warming them up to live animal temps (100 degrees)? A properly warmed and presented (move it around a little) prey item should be indistinguishable from live prey to your snake. I've kept dozens of snakes and never encountered one that didn't feed on f/t immediatley.
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Dennis

I've found the same thing. If the mouse or rat is properly heated to the approximate temp of a living animal (100-101 degrees F) I've never had a refusal. Even the rescued Burmese who'd only had live for her entire life ate f/t rat the first time. She did think the wet fur was a little odd, but once I dangled it back in front of her, she took it. You can always heat it in a plastic bag to keep it dry. Another trick is to hold the nose near a light bulb to give it an extra heat signature before presenting.

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1.0~amel corn~C.S.
1.3~Aztec Okeetee corns~Coatl,Maya,Acatl,Tepin
0.1.1~Green tree python~Tempest, Whisper
0.2~Rhodesian Ridgebacks~Akilah, Ona
1.0~Black fat cat~Topper
3.0~Horses~Zaarah,Galliano,Achilles.....

i usually heat mine up using hot water and dry them off using a paper towel...

through my years of experience i have had a few snakes that never ate f/t... i worked with a boa for 3 years and i never had any luck...
alot of it has to do with presentation and some snakes just dont like any other movement...

Shiloh
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Shiloh Hawkesworth
kansas
(Midwest Serpents)

Check out the following articles by Dave and Tracy Barker at VPI. Anyone keeping reptiles should have a copy of this on hand:

http://www.vpi.com/9VPITipsAndTechs/TheWarAgainstSnakeMites/TheWarAgainstSnakeMites.htm

Best regards,

Jeff
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Jeff Snodgres
University of Arkansas
snodgresjeffreys@uams.edu
501.603.1947

Mites that infest rodents, such as Liponyssides sanguineus (house mouse mite) and Laelaps echidnina (spiny rat mite), which are the two most common rodent mites in the U.S., are not the same species as that which infest snakes Ophionussus natricis (snake mite), so it would be impossible for your snake to incur such an infestation, as such mites require warm blooded hosts.
Wood mites have been known to turn up within bags of Aspen and other wood products sold as snake bedding, but again, these do not predate upon reptiles, though the presence of such will alarm even the most seasoned herp herpetoculturist, as all of us who keep herps want to see the animals within our care being the only residents within their enclosures...

best regards,

Jeff
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Jeff Snodgres
University of Arkansas
snodgresjeffreys@uams.edu
501.603.1947

hey jeff.thanks for your responce.yes i am aware of the fact that snake mites are a differnt species than rodent mites,and rodent mites would not infect snakes and vice versa,but that does not eliminate the risk of live mice being housed in the reptile section of a pet store and having snake mites hitch a ride on food mice and rats.its common for snake mites to hitch rides on humans so i think it very possible for this to happen.i would assume that even a bag or box from a pet store could harbor mites.

i guess the only alternative is to jump on the band wagon and start breeding your own rodents........ or you could create a decontamination chamber... lol

Shiloh
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Shiloh Hawkesworth
kansas
(Midwest Serpents)

yea i do breed my own,well not recently because i was breeding african pygmy mice and my chondros have since outgrown them.its a cool mouse species that full grown are not much bigger than pinkies.a great choice for neonates that normally would eat pinkies but these are the same size but with full skeleton rather than pinkie cartilage.more calcium.maybe this is what contributed to my snake pinkiness.who knows.all i know is i have tried everything to get him to eat dead and to no avail.

Very unlikely, should you acquire your feeder rodents form a clean and dependable source.

If you have been keeping reptiles for any amount of time, you should be able to recognize the signs of a poorly maintained shop and know better than to conduct your business at such. Otherwise, you have no one to blame but yourself, as being indiscriminate with your source of feeder rodents can be likened to being indiscriminate with your reptile supplier. Furthermore, you should NEVER introduce outside materials into your main collection room and any incoming specimen should be quarantined for a minimum of 90 days, along with clearing at least three fecal exams, as many internal parasites harbor slow development and reproduction processes.

Sounds to me as though you already “know” where mites can come from and what to look for, so why post a question to this regard?

As has already been mentioned, it is much better to feed your charge/s FT rodents, which will eradicate any chance of your snake an external parasite from such, though keep in mind, freezing is bactertiostatic, not a bactericide, meaning freezing will slow the growth of bacteria, but not eradicate it.

Best regards,

Jeff
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Jeff Snodgres
University of Arkansas
snodgresjeffreys@uams.edu
501.603.1947

i was asking the question not because i dont know where or how mites are transmitted,but wondering about the liklyhood of getting mites from unusual sources.i have begun keeping my herps in setups where should i get a mite problem,i would not be able to control without destroying the whole vivarium.now granted,i can tell a shop that is clean and dirty but mites really dont discriminate and clean shops can just as easily get mites.i have been blessed in the 20 years of keeping herps,i have not once had a mite problem,but id be willing to guess that the vast majority of people reading this have.this says nothing of how clean or dirty they keep their animals.a lot of it has to do with luck or their suppliers,or their suppliers,suppliers.it was not untill yesterday,did i even think about live mice or crickets ect,harboring mites.it is VERY likly the more i read about it.the nature of snake mites is that they dont seek out snakes or reptiles.they seek out the c02 that reptiles give off.they will go after a mouse or even a cricket just as fast,but once on that animal,they realise its not their natural host.by that time it may be too late and that mouse is already in a box on the way to my snake.anyway,im sure some of you guys have gotten mites and really have no idea where they came from,just maybe suspect something.thats what i am curious about.as far as quarentine,well i do ,and im sure most people on this forum do,but i really dont know of too many petstores that do.even if they did,quarentine does little for mites as they can crawl and will quickly go from one tank to another,one room to another,one building to another, hitching rides on unsuspecting humans.

i have begun keeping my herps in setups where should i get a mite problem,i would not be able to control without destroying the whole vivarium

This is interesting and I would like to know how you believe you can eradicate a mite problem without breaking down your vivarium, as it is virtually impossible to destroy all of the eggs without doing so.

i can tell a shop that is clean and dirty but mites really dont discriminate and clean shops can just as easily get mites

You are less likely to acquire an infestation from an unlikely source, hence the use of unlikely, when acquiring feeders and supplies from a well maintained shop. The mites may not discriminate, but an educated and well versed shop keeper does.

i have been blessed in the 20 years of keeping herps,i have not once had a mite problem,but id be willing to guess that the vast majority of people reading this have.this says nothing of how clean or dirty they keep their animals

Then you should be the one giving the advice, not seeking it, as you have obviously done something correct for the past 20 years and are to be commended for such.
There is a difference between incurring an occasional specimen harboring mites and a mite problem, as the first should not be cause for panic and will be noticed early on and dealt with swiftly during quarantine, while the latter is typically due to the negligence of the unwary keeper.

it was not untill yesterday,did i even think about live mice or crickets ect,harboring mites

It has taken you over 20 years to come to this realization? This is a primary reason for the feeding of F/T prey. Also, in over 25 years of working with herps within zoological and academic institutions I have never encountered a cricket harboring the common snake mite and would be curious to know whether anyone else has.

it is VERY likly the more i read about it.the nature of snake mites is that they dont seek out snakes or reptiles.they seek out the c02 that reptiles give off.they will go after a mouse or even a cricket just as fast,but once on that animal,they realise its not their natural host.by that time it may be too late and that mouse is already in a box on the way to my snake.anyway

The common snake mite is a reptile specific ectoparasite requiring reptilian hosts, but we already know this. Once again, the use of F/T prey and keeping possibly contaminated materials away from your collection will prevent the transmission of mites. Not to mention, common snake mites will generally abandon mammals in quick order..

as far as quarentine,well i do ,and im sure most people on this forum do,but i really dont know of too many petstores that do.even if they did,quarentine does little for mites as they can crawl and will quickly go from one tank to another,one room to another,one building to another, hitching rides on unsuspecting humans.

I have to disagree with you as quarantine, when proper protocols are in place and followed, is the most effective tool in dealing with common snake mites. If mites are capable of moving from one enclosure to another within your quarantine room or you allow such to be transferred upon your clothing, then you do not have the proper protocols in place...

Regards,

Jeff

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Jeff Snodgres
University of Arkansas
snodgresjeffreys@uams.edu
501.603.1947

This is interesting and I would like to know how you believe you can eradicate a mite problem without breaking down your vivarium, as it is virtually impossible to destroy all of the eggs without doing so.

im really not going to bother with the rest of your post. since this being your first responce,all i saw was that youre unable to read.where in my post did i claim that i would be able to eradicate a mite problem in my vivarium???quite the opposite.i made the post out of concern and made the statement that my current setup would make that impossible.please go back and read it,but dont bother responding because,although you may have read a few care sheets,you obviously lack reptile experience to make statments like you do.its a known fact that many keepers,regardless of how careful they are,get mites.mites can crawl and unless you use a moat of water,transmission is always possible.mites are not usually noticed untill they have spread and by that time anyone with common sence treats their whole reptile room and usually their entire collection within reason.it sounds great to say that all respectable petshops quarentine but that is a joke to think that most do.i have actually NEVER been in one that did.shipments come in and they are inspected and sold.it sucks but its the truth.there may be a couple amazing places that actually have a quarentine room but i have never seen one.if you know of one please tell the name of this establishment and that all reptiles that come in are not sold for 90 days.lol.you also claim that snake mites that find their way onto mice quickly jump off???did you make this up or can you supply a study? i can show proof that mice commonly do carry snake mites for short times as well as any animal that gives off c02.if i had contracted mites regardless of taking precautions,i would be really offended at your comments.i do feed my snakes frozen but again,if you have the experience that you claim to have,youd know that some just wont,regardless of how much you try.`

your comment about me having 20 years of reptile experice i should be the one giving the advise and not asking for it??.is that how you see your place here??well with a comment like that,it just proves my suspicion of you.unlike some people on this forum,i dont feel its my job to sit here and wait for a chance to "show off"my experience.im not ashamed to ask someones opinion on a subject(yes maybe even someone with less experience)and if i get a generic answer,or just a repeat of what someone read on a care sheet,i dont make an issue of it.all i do is say to myself"well,i was hoping for something a little deeper"and forget about it.sometimes i like to get a discussion about a topic i have been wondering about and dont consider that someone may mistake it for being uninformed or question my experience.99 percent of the time that doesnt happen and this forum is here to prove that,but occasionaly,someone shows up that feels that to ask a question is a sign of weakness.its sad.it really is.there are countless caresheets out there and if all you want to do is show that you have read one,just give a url.you jumped on my statement"untill yesterday i didnt really think about mice carrying snake mites"and quickly said"it took you 20 years of experience to just find out" or something like that.no,i knew about it for a long time but,it was never as much of a concern as it is now(new setups).again,its sad that i even have to waste time responding to that and out of the hundreds of people who read this,youre the only person that thought it needed to be explained.lots of people responded and gave their take,but you were the only person that seemed to take my post personaly.that should tell you something.

states that crickets and mice can harbor snake mites.wanna show me where it says that they cant??or id you just make that up too?
http://www.geocities.com/thearkfiles/mites2.html

also it surprises me that someone that claims to work for zoos has such a wealth of misinformation.i really didnt notice so many of your comments untill going back and reading again.to make a claim that any mites that would infect rodents cannot infect reptiles because they need a warm blooded host is pure nonsence.that would be true if the common snake mite was the only mite that infects reptiles but it is not.there have been over 250 different species of mites found feeding and infecting reptiles.many of these species also feed on rodents,birds,and even humans.even the common snake mite youre talking about does not only feed on reptiles but commonly feeds on large insects like scorpions and large pet spiders.besides these,even the common chigger(found on dogs,cats,mice and basically anything that moves,is commonly found infecting captive reptiles.please get your facts straight before correcting someone and try to refrain from pulling false info from your.....you either do not work for a zoo,or they really need to reconsider their hiring practices.

step on you toes icey, and I apologize for my comment regarding the eradication of mites within a planted vivarium, as I mis-read what you wrote, the woes of recent cataract surgery and being in a hurry. Also, I believe there is no such thing as a stupid question, I ask questions all the time, but normally find that a bit of time spent viewing past posts often provides the answers I am looking for, so why burden teh forum with repetitive questioning, when I am well versed in searching the archives.
While only a single paper I have read makes mention of over 250 species of Acarina being found upon various reptiles and amphibians, not simply serpents, O. natricis is by far the most problematic and common of such within herpetoculture, requiring reptilian host to complete their reproductive life cycle, so it is generally believed when someone has incurred a mite infestation O. natricis is the culprit
Most Acarina are opportunistic feeders and will take a bite, literally, out of anything with a respiratory system, but since many require a specific host to complete their life-cycle, they will abandon an intermediate host in search of a species specific host.
Also, I must apologize for my cross remark about your experience, as I didn’t realize how that came across, until I re-read what I wrote. It was not my intention to offend anyone on the forum and I apologize to you, and anyone else, who may have taken offense to my remark/s, as it was not intention to disrupt the conducive and polite manner in which most correspondences upon this particular forum evolve…

Best regards,

Jeff

PS: Icey, if you would like to corrspond with me directly, feel free to e-mail me at snodgresjeffreys@uams.edu
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Jeff Snodgres
University of Arkansas
snodgresjeffreys@uams.edu
501.603.1947