Reptile & Amphibian Forums

does it really make that big of a difference? with a hot spot of 90ish and cool spot of 80ish whats it matter if is belly vs rear heat?

the reason i'm asking b/c jason from jason's jungle only uses rear heat with all his racks.
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billy jean king
BugBusters

So tell me,where does a snake keep its food? In its belly or its rear? Yeah rear heat will work but the question is what is optimum. The answer is belly heat.

whos to say where the food sits inside the belly is really closer to the bottom of the snake anyway?

isn't 90 degrees 90 degrees be it up down left of right?
just something to think about
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billy jean king
BugBusters

If you dip your hand in 150F water, or put your hand in a 150F oven, whats going to show the heat? Ambiant heat will not do so nicely.

Ben

But what do ball pythons have in the wild, they don't bask during the day outside, so I guess they get ambient temps from underground, it can't be that hot under there but I guess it is in the 90's.

don't knoe but it would be easier to make rack heat from the back.

steve

I think that the two different ways are similar enough that it is safer to go with back heating. For instance, lets say you bought a cheap thermostat and it decided to take a break, meanwhile the heat tape is getting hotter and hotter and your snake has no where to go. If it is on the belly you run the risk, possibly, of burns. plastic gets hot like anything else. If it is at the back, i feel there is less risk to the health of the snake.

I use back heat on my racks now and it works great.

For example, I have this import female that would eat MAYBE 3 times a year. Very picky (drove me nuts). I tried her in neodeshas with RHP's on the top.

I also tried her in a rack I no longer have that had 3 inch flexwatt on the shelf for belly heat.

Nothing worked.

As soon as she moved into a new rack with 2 strips of 11 inch flexwatt down the back, she has turned into a voracious feeder. She has eaten more in the past month than she did last year.

I don't think belly heat is all that great. When a snake is basking in the wild, the heat is not concentrated on the belly. It comes from above or from an angle down on them.

The rock they are sitting on. Like I said before, stick your hand in a 150F oven, then stick it in 150F water, or on a 150F burner... what is going to hurt more and actually burn you? They wouldnt need to sit still in the sun so long if they just got all their heat from the sun directly hitting them. They absorb the heat from what they are sitting on as well. Thats why you will almost always find lizards and snakes sunning on rocks and tree trunks. They put off alot of heat.

Ben

Ball pythons stay underground all day, they dont like to bask in full view of everything and everyone, thats the difference here I think. Other snakes dont mind basking on rock but balls, I don't think so.

steve

One other thing

If you put your food on the over surface, it would cook alot quicker and burn. maybe balls preffer ambient heat.

steve

Good points. I guess we just dont know enough for sure about these in the wild (we being me perhaps). I just cant imagine a reptile that wont come out to bask, but I know BPs stay in their burrows for a long time.

Ben

Hey,
When you heat from the rear on a rack and it is inclosed, the heat from the heat tape will actually warm the back of the tubs and the bottom because the warmth also penetrates the shelves.

N.P.

The best source of heat depends on the type of rack system. The best type of rack system depends on the herp room environment. It all works together.

Examine your herp room environment. Consider the best rack system for that environment. Then choose the best heat source for the rack system.

(Then ask Harper for help. LOL)

Chris
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mean people suck

From my expereince I've found that back heat didn't provide a proper heat gradient - it would only warm the back wall and I kept finding the snakes pinning themselves between the back wall and thier hides. I switched out to belly heat and found that with the heat radiating directly up into the tub the heat gradient was maintained better, the snakes were comfortably back in their hides, and my electric bill went down as it required less heat. This is just my expereince - I've heard great things about Jasons racks so I'm sure he's managed to find a way to make it work.
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Tosha

"Nihil facimus sed id bene facimus"

7.33.0 Ball Python (Harry and Fluffy and gang)
1.0.0 Angolan Python (Anakin Skywalker)
0.0.1 Green Tree Python (Verdi - yeah I know but my kids love the book)
0.2.0 Feline (Pippen and Pandora)
0.0.1 Desert Tortoise (Pope John Paul aka JP )
2.2.1 Fish (1,2,3,4)
0.0.2 frogs rescued from pool skimmer

I use belly heat on my larger tubs because there is planty of room for them to move away from the heat. I use back heat on the shoebox racks because it only warms the back of the box. Works well for me. Ron
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The Crawl Space

I use back heat because the racks I purchased did not offer the option of belly heat. I was happy with the back heat after reading so many horror stories involving belly heat and severly burned animals.

(However, after speaking directly to breeders whose animals have been injured, I place the fault on the breeder and not on the belly heat. Most of these incidents are due to belly heat inside the cage or the use of rheostats instead of thermostats.)

I just finished building a new Cornsnake rack this weekend that utilizes belly heat. And I plan on building a Ball Python rack next weekend with belly heat.

The belly heat just seems a bit more natural. It is also easier to regulate temps. (The heat rises straight up into the animals before being affected by fluctuating ambiant room temperatures. At least this is my theory.) This may also effectively lower monthly heating costs.

The best choice really depends on the room environment and the style of rack system. Everyone has different needs.

Chris
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mean people suck

I have to say I think rheostats are just plane scarry thing to use with heat tape. A rheostat is the same thing as a dimmer on your wall. It will limit the current to the heating device so it will not get so much 'juice'. In turn, if the current on your house ever goes up or down, so does the power going to the heating device. If you have 3 heat strips on a breaker, and plug another in, you will have to go around and adjust all of the rheostats, because the amps have dropped. A power surge can fry a rheostats too. Its just a big resistor with a knob.

A thermostat will turn a device on and off when they get to set temperatures. If you have a device that it will not matter how many times you switch it on and off (heat tape) then a thermostat is the best way to go. Who says they have to be so expensive... homedepot sells home thermostats that work on AA batteries for $30... another $20 in radio shack parts and it can easily work for your reptiles. I have a bunch of them, they work great.

Ben

I agree. (And I would add that rheostats are borderline irresponsible. IMHO)

I know someone who used a rheostat with his Ball Python rack system. The rheostat was normally turned down during the day and turned up during the night. One morning he left his house in a hurry. (And forgot to turn down the rheostat.) He returned home a few hours later to dead animals. (Morphs included.)

It doesn't take long for a Ball Python to cook.

Even without the evident dangers that go along with rheostats, the thermostat is superior because it utilizes set-it-and-forget-it temperature control. Set the temperature one time, and walk away. And never worry about it again. (This makes vacation time a breeze.)

Chris
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mean people suck

Hey everyone,
I just wanted to add a little to this. When I was younger, I used to go out right after dark with a flashlight and look for toads in my neighborhood. Every night there were "many" out on the side walks apparently absorbing the heat from the concrete. I think this is their natural way of "basking" in a nocturnal environment. Clearly this shows an intelligence as to where to go for a heat source and coincidentally it is "belly" heat they aquired. It makes sense that "though not lasting all night", that belly heat is naturally received by balls and many other nocturnal reptiles by laying on rocks or any other surface that retains heat well after dark.
Thanks,
Glenn

that snakes like to bask on the sides of the road, just on the asphalt. Coincident? I see them all the time in the morning and evenings.
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Jay A. Martin
Jay Martin Reptiles

Hey Jay,
I have not seen any snakes doing this. It was a pretty residential neighborhood and I rarely saw a snake anywhere around. This is probably one of the reasons why I routinely saw so many toads.
Thanks,
Glenn

amphibians dont bask. They have no need. They are very differnt from reptiles.

Ben

I beg to differ with you, but they are cold blooded. They utilize things like lily pads and rocks in and out of the water for soakin' up the sun. It's feasible toads would come out to a road to soak up some heat before the long nights hunt for a meal or three. Just my opinion.

Quig

My bad, you are right. Of course they are cold blooded, what was I thinking. I was thinking of something else (Digestion in Ectodermic Herbivores, lizards that eat only veggies).

Ben