Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Calling all knowledgable herps!
We currently have 2 HLS from the Western Nevada region. One is just over a year old (we've had for over a year) and was doing well until about a month ago. The lizard stopped eating and has been digging around , we're thinking, trying to hibernate. We did not hiberante this lizard last year and it survived well.It has been eating local caught red ants and some crickets,even a few moths. All of a sudden, it stopped and has not eaten for about 4 weeks and buries in every night. The daytime temp in the cage is about 80 -85 degrees and falls to about 50-60 in the evening. The temp outside has been in the 70's in the day and about 30-40 in the night.Just this weekend the temps have fallen to 60's during the day outside, still very cool in the evening. The 10 gallon cage is subjected to indirect light and located in the office area.The younger lizard is still eating local caught red ants and doing well.The substrate in the cage is store bought reptile sand about 2 inches deep. We are thinking of trying to hibernate the older lizard (in another cage) but need all kinds of information on the "how to", i.e moisten the sand, only sand, really cool temps, how deep on the sand, etc. We are confused if we should try to heat up the cage more and keep them both from hibernating, because the little one wants to eat or will the big one even make it since it hasn't eaten in so long? More info..we turn on the heat lamp during the day (about 8 a.m until 6 p.m.) We REALLY like these guys and want to succeed with their care! Can any one please help? We would be interested in
any information to help our success in raising these lizards!

Thanks from a concerned mother of 2 HLs.

We currently have 2 HLS from the Western Nevada region. One is just over a year old (we've had for over a year) and was doing well until about a month ago. The lizard stopped eating and has been digging around , we're thinking, trying to hibernate. We did not hiberante this lizard last year and it survived well.It has been eating local caught red ants and some crickets,even a few moths. All of a sudden, it stopped and has not eaten for about 4 weeks and buries in every night.

FIRST OF ALL WE DON'T KNOW WHAT SPECIE IT IS, IF IT'S A DESERT hl THE TEMPS ARE TOO LOW ON THE HOT SIDE AND YES THIS SOUNDS LIKE HIBERNATION ANTICS, HOWEVER ITS HARD TO TELL. INCREASING THE HOT SIDE OF THE CAGE MAY HELP EATING. MAY TAKE A DAY OR SO, BUT ONCE HEATED UP THEY SHOULD RESUME NORMAL EATING HABITS. WE ARE NOT FAR FROM HIBERNATION SEASON. CAN YOU POST A PICTURE OF YOUR ANIMAL SO WE CAN SEE IT'S RELATIVE HEALTH. GIVEN GOOD HEALTH I'D SAY HIBERNATE THE BIG ONE, BUT CONSIDER NOT HIBERNATING THE SMALL ONE UNLESS IT IS VERY HEALTHY AND THEN FOR A SHORTER TIME. 4 WEEKS WITH OUT EATING SOUNDS LIKE HIBERNATION, BUT THIS ALSO COULD BE A HEALTH ISSUE? I'M NOT SURE

The daytime temp in the cage is about 80 -85 degrees and falls to about 50-60 in the evening. The temp outside has been in the 70's in the day and about 30-40 in the night. Just this weekend the temps have fallen to 60's during the day outside, still very cool in the evening.

IF YOU HAVE A SHORT HORNED LIZARD THEN THOSE TEMPS SHOULD BE O.K., MAYBE 90 FOR THE BASKING SITE. i WOULD RECOMMEND YOU KEEP IT THE CAGE INSIDE THE HOUSE OR GET A NIGHT BULB THAT KEEPS THE CAGE AT 70 DEGREES AT NIGHT IF THE LIZARDS ARE DESERT HL'S. THIS SHOULD SEND THEM INTO HIBERNATION HAVING THIS LARGE A GRADIAENT IN TEMPS.

The 10 gallon cage is subjected to indirect light and located in the office area.

AT A MINIMUM FOR TWO HORNED LIZARDS A 20 GALLON LONG IS RECOMMENDED, THIS IS TO SMALL A CAGE FOR TWO HORNED LIZARDS IN MY OPINION, AND WHEN THEY ARE FULL GROWN I WOULD RECOMMEND A 40 GALLON CAGE.....

The younger lizard is still eating local caught red ants and doing well. EXCELLENT BECAUSE FOR MOST HORNED LIZARDS ANTS ARE AN INTRICAL PART OF THE DIET.

The substrate in the cage is store bought reptile sand about 2 inches deep.

YOU MIGHT CONSIDER GETTING HOME DEPOT PLAYSAND FOR CHILDRENS SAND BOX. IT IS VERY CHEAP AND CLEANED AND SANITIZED FOR HUMANS AND CHILDRENS SO ITS CONSISTANCY IS MORE LIKE REAL RIVER BED OR DESERT SAND. REPTILE SAND WHILE IT LOOKS GOOD IS SO FINE IT CAN GET IN THEIR EYES AND NO NATURAL SAND IS REALLY THAT FINE. JUST MY OPINION....

We are thinking of trying to hibernate the older lizard (in another cage) but need all kinds of information on the "how to", i.e moisten the sand, only sand, really cool temps, how deep on the sand, etc. We are confused if we should try to heat up the cage more and keep them both from hibernating, because the little one wants to eat or will the big one even make it since it hasn't eaten in so long?

YOU COULD HEAT THEM UP SEE IF THE BIG GUY EATS, BEING THAT I HAVE NO INFORMATION ON SPECIE IT'S HARD TO GIVE COMPETENT ADVICE. IF THEY ARE SHORT HORNS THEN THEY GO FOR COOLDER CLIMATES AND COLDER HIBERNATION TEMPS. IF THEY ARE DESEERTS THEN THEY DON'T NEEED REAL COLD TEMPS, 55-65 IS FINE, REMEMBER IN THE DESERT THE GROUND TEMPS CAN BE 120 DEGREES, AND NIGHT TEMPS ARE OFTEN IN THE HIGH 80'S DURING SUMMER, SO THIS KIND OF TEMP WILL DO FINE. IF THEY ARE SHORT HORNS YOU MAY NEED TO CONSIDER PUTTING THEM IN THE REFRIGERATOR, HOWEVER THEY DO NEED TO BE HYDRATED FROM TIME TO TIME. DO YOUR LIZARDS DRINK WATER OUR OF A DROPPER OR DO YOU SPRAY THE ROCKS ETC. LET ME KNOW.
CURRENTLY YOU HAVE TIME TO KEEP FEEDING THEM AND PUT THEM DOWN AROUND NOVEMBER 15 TH. MY SOLARE FEMALE HAS NOT COME OUT OF THE SAND, THE TEMPS HAVE DROPPED AND I THINK SHE IS HIBERNATING, MY MALE STILL COMES OUT AND EATS SO I WILL KEEP FEEDING HIM UNTIL HE STOPS. TWO WEEKS BEFORE NOVEMBER 15TH I START CUTTING THE LIGHTS DOWN. dON'T FEED THEM SO THEY CLEAN THEIR DIGESTIVE TRACK OUT BEFORE HIBERNATING.

TOO MUCH HUMIDITY IS DANGEROUS FOR SOME HORNED LIZARD SPECIES SO BE CAREFUL ABOUT WET SAND AND HIBERNATION. IF YOU HAVENT WENT TO OUR SITE YOU NEED TO READ EVERYTHING WE HAVE ABOUT HUSBANDRY OF THESE ANIMALS. REMEMBER DIFFERENT SPECIES NEED DIFFERING CARE. SO IF YOU'LL POST A PICTURE OF THE TWO THAT WOULD HELP, LAST OF ALL READ UP ON LIGHTING AS WELL. DO YOU HAVE A MERCURY VAPOR OF FLOUESCENT TUBE FOR UVB? IF NOT YOUR LIZARD NEED THIS IN ORDER TO MAINTAIN GOOD HEALTH. I'M ASSUMING YOU HAVE THIS ONE OR THE OTHER. MANY PEOPLE ARE RECOMMENDING THE 10.0 ZOOMED BULB OR THE 8.0 IN FLOUESCENTS. HOPE THIS MAY HELP-I CAN'T GIVE YOU ANYMORE INSIGHT WITHOUT KNOWING THE SPECIE...............
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Phrynosoma.com

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signature file edited. [phw 11/14/04]

Reptoman,

Thanks for the information!

Both the HLs are Platyrhinos. I'm not sure what light we currently have on them, but I remember it was bought at the pet store for Reptiles. I know that isn't the best information, but I will have to research by going back to the store. The cage is currently indoors at all times, although I have put outside, on occasion, in the sun to get the "good stuff". Not lately cuz the temps have been dropping during the day.I'm not to good at downloading pics, but will try. We actually haven't even taken any. Give me a couple of days. We mist the lizards for a water source every once in a while. They puff up..it's kinda neat. We also have adopted desert tortoises(7) that we soak in a pedialyte solution before we hibernate and it really seems to help with the long winter hibernation.We have done this for the past 10 years. Could we do something like this for the lizard? I still am unclear about what we should prepare for the hibernation cage. Just plain sand and let the little guy get it all figured out by himself? It is a smaller plastic cage but for hibernation we figured it would be okay.
I am so excited to be able to communicate with those of expert knowledge!! I think we are heading in the right direction!
Thanks again.

I ANSWERED MOST OF YOUR QUESTIONS VIA E-MAIL, BUT ONE OTHER ADD - ON.........

I still am unclear about what we should prepare for the hibernation cage. Just plain sand and let the little guy get it all figured out by himself? It is a smaller plastic cage but for hibernation we figured it would be okay.

I HAVE A 40 GALLON CAGE FOR TWO SOLARE HORNED LIZARDS FROM ARIZONA. THE FEMALE HAS DUG UNDER ONE OF THE FLAT HIDE ROCKS THAT ARE PROPPED UP BY ANOTHER ROCK AND SHE HASN'T BEEN OUT FOR A WEEK. SHE WAS EATING WITH RECKLESSS ABONDON AND THEN JUST DUG DOWN AND HASN'T COME OUT. WE HAVE HAD A 20 DERGREE DROP IN TEMPS, AND THIS IS ABOUT THE SEASON THEY GO DOWN. MY MALE IS STILL OUT, I HAVEN'T CHANGED THE LIGHTING, AND I CONTINUE TO FEED THE MALE AND HE EATS EVERY DAY AND I HAVEN'T CHANGED THE LIGHTING. AROUND NOVEMBER FIRST I WILL CUT DOWN THE LIGHTING AND LET THE GARAGE TEMPS TAKE OVER (I LIVE IN TEXAS--MUCH WARMER)THIS IS WHAT I DID WITH MY SOLARE AND THEY HAD A FINE WINTER LAST YEAR. I LEAVE A LIGHT THAT COMES ON OFF THROUGHOUT THE WINTER AND HELPS TAKE OFF THE CHILL DURING THE DAY BUT THE TEMPS ARE WAY BELOW OPORATING TEMPS FOR HORNED LIZARDS. WHAT I FOUND IS THEY WILL DIG UNDER THE SAND AND MOVE UP TO AN OPTIMIUM SPOT THAT IS NOT REAL CLOSE TO THE BULB BUT STILL KEEPS THEM INBETWEEN VERY COLD AND SLIGHTLY WARM. THEY DO THIS NATURALLY AND FIND THE TEMP GRADIENT THAT IS RIGHT FOR THEM. ALSO THE MALE DID THE SAME THING LAST YEAR, THE FEMALE ATE LIKE A PIG AND THEN WENT DOWN FIRST, THE MALE KEPT EATING FOR ABOUT TWO WEEKS AND THEN WENT DOWN.

NOW GETTING BACK TO YOURS, ASSUMING YOUR LIZARD "IS" HEALTHY I DON'T KNOW IF HE'S HIBERNATING EARLY BECAUSE OF THE COOLER TEMPS, I SUSPECT THAT IF YOU HEATED THEM UP HE MIGHT EAT SOME MORE. BUT THEIR CLOCKS ARE PRETTY RIGHT ON AND WHEN THEY GO DOWN THEY KNOW AND IT IS THE RIGHT TIME. I USUALLY JUST LET THEM GO DOWN IN THE CAGE. I DON'T SEE THE NECCESITY OF HAVING ANOTHER SET-UP FOR HIBERNATION. I CHECK THEM EVERY COUPLE WEEKS AND MAKE SURE THEY ARE FINE, BIGGEST THING IS WIEGHT LOSS, IF THEY LOSE A LOT OF WIEGHT TO WHERE THEY ARE SKINNY THEN IT IS ADVISABLE TO WARM THEM UP, BUT THATS ANOTHER ISSUE. MOST HEALTHY HORNED LIZARDS WILL LOSE SOME WIEGHT BUT NOT MUCH. AGAIN I USUALLY START HEATING THE CAGE UP AROUND THE END OF FEBRUARY AND BY THE 15TH OF MARCH THEY ARE USUALLY EATING FULL BORE.

ANOTHER ISSUE--WITH RESPECT TO FEEDING CRICKETS, USE 1/4 CRICKETS AND SMALLER FOR THE LITTLE ONE. DON'T GIVE THEM BIG CRICKETS TO EAT. ALSO 4 OR 5 SMALL CRCIKETS ARE BETTER THAN ONE BIG ONE. I ALSO THINK IF YOUR NOT USING A VITAMIN POWDER YOU MIGHT CONSIDER IT, SOME PEOPLE DO OTHERS DON'T, I USE IT ONCE OR TWICE A WEEK, "MINERAL-ALL" IS A GOOD ONE. VARY THE DIET WITH MOSTLY ANTS AND WAX WORMS, MINI-MEALWORMS, CRICKETS BUT NOT AS MAIN STAY, THE ANTS ARE USSUALLY THE MAINSTAY AT LEAST 60% WOULD BE GOOD. THERE MADE TO EAT SMALL PREY SO FEED THEM SMALL PREY NOT SOMETHING THE SIZE OF THEIR HEAD. JUST SHAKE AND BAKE THE CRICKETS AND WAXWORMS WITH MINERAL-ALL. WELL FOR NOW I THINK I'VE COVERED WHAT I CAN GIVE YOU, OH MINI-MEALWORMS ARE NOT "MEALWORMS LIKE YOU BUY AT THE PET-STORE. PLEASE LOOK UP THE WEB-SITE FOR THESE THEY ARE A DIFFERENT SPECIE. REGULAR MEALWORMS HAVE A HARD EXOSKELETON THAT IS HARD TO DIGEST AND I FEEL IS UNHEALTHY FOR HORNED LIZARDS, AS A RULE I NEVER FEED MY HORNED LIZARDS REGULAR MEALWORMS OR TOO MANY CIRCKETS, AS THEIR HAS BEEN SOME DISCUSSION IN THE PAST OF THE CRICKET POPULATION POSSIBLY CARRYING DISEASE TO HORNED LIZARDS, AND ONE NEVER KNOWS WHO'S CRICKETS ARE OR ARE NOT HEALTHY NO MATTER WHAT THERE CLAIMS ARE. SO YES I DO USE CRICKETS BUT SPARINGLY, MOST OF THE TIME IT'S ANTS AND OCCASIONAL WAX WORM OR MINI-MEALWORMS. AGAIN THE TEMPS ARE MAJORLY IMPORTANT TO HAVE YOUR ANIMALS EATING. I THINK YOU COULD SPEND TIME FATTENING THEM UP AND PUT THEM DOWN LATER IF YOU WARMED UP THEIR CAGE, BUT IT'S SO CLOSE TO HIBERNATION MAYBE IT'S JUST AS GOOD TO LEAVE THE BIG GUY DOWN FOR THE COUNT. SHOULD YOU INCREASE THE TEMP OF THE CAGE SOMEWHAT HE MAY COME OUT BY HIMSELF, IF NOT MAYBE LET HIM STAY DOWN. HOPE SOME OR ALL OF THIS HELPS YOU IN YOUR ENDEAVOR.........ALSO IN ORDER TO KEEP SUMMER TYPE TEMPS YOU NEED TO MAKE SURE THE CAGE IS AT LEAT 75 DEGREES OR SO AT NIGHT. SO IF THE NIGHT TEMPS ARE 50-65 AND THE DAY TEMPS 105 THAT IS TO BIG A VARIATION IN THE TEMPRATURE SPAN. SO YOU MAY NEED TO HAVE A DARK BULB RED OR BLUE AT NIGHT THAT YOU TURN ON TO KEEP UP THE TEMPS SHOULD YOU DECIDE TO FEED THEM MORE..........BUT IT DOES SOUND LIKE THE BIG GUY HAS HAD A REACTION THAT IS NATURAL TO THE DROP IN TEMPS AND IS NOW HIBERNATING, WITH GOOD HEALTH, YOU CAN PROBABLY LET HIM STAY DOWN LIKE MY FEMALE IS DOWN RIGHT NOW AS WELL.
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Phrynosoma.com

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signature file edited. [phw 11/14/04]

Thanks again for your vast knowledge and the willingness to share it. We currently have a Zoo med 150 watts. We switched up from a zoo med 75 watt. We are now on a mission to improve the cage. I did get a couple of pics. Not sure how to attach them. Will get it figured out. I have read your website from top to bottom. It has been a great help. Although, I'm not so sure about the temps. The area we found these guys is not in southern Nevada, but Northern Nevada. The temps are only in the 60'-70's in the evenings in the summer and hot (90-100s plus *) during the day. However, we have horny toads on our property and the temps are varying greatly these days. We hope "Stitch" is healthy enough. "Junior" seems to be doing well.Thanks again for all your help, it has been invaluable!!I actually have been excited to find out all I can.