Reptile & Amphibian Forums

First. I appreciate that you shared the info you know about these crosses. I will repost your post as it is quite a ways down there now. You stated:

"The first time it was at the Baltimore Zoo (Reptile house now gone), and the same (I believe) group of 5.6 (all over 6') animals mated and produced 6 sets of slugs while on loan to Larry Kenton at Md. Reptile Farm. The last Reptile Curator at the Zoo there (and I forget Vicky's last name), and I were discussing them at the M.A.R.S show last month. She agreed that they are mules, and that NO ONE has bred Carpondro's together and produced any fertile young. If I am wrong, and it has occurred, I stand corrected. By now, that should have happened, either here or abroad. It would have been trumpeted quite loudly by now. My personal belief is that they would be fertile w/a parent, but I haven't seen that yet, either. I don't know the current whereabouts of that group of 11 animals, but I believe they are in the possesion of the former Curator of the Reptile House in Balto."

Not to play Devil's advocate here but I have a hard time believing that nature can be labelled and put in a box so to speak. Every time we try to do that, nature finds a way to prove us wrong. So considering that the carpondros you speak of were all from the same clutch, perhaps it is just that those offspring are infertile and eventually someone may produce perfectly viable hybrids of this type from another pairing, just not from that one clutch. It reminds me of the old saying, "never put your eggs in one basket". In this case, never assume you have the answer when your sample size is small and far from diverse. Ya follow where I am coming from?
Maybe it's too early in the morning for me to effectively get my point across but oh well. Gotta get some coffee now.

-Yasser
SR

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Hi Yasser! I understand what you're saying, but you also have to be aware that no one has come up with offspring that have bred and produced fertile eggs, and by now someone surely should have made it known. The odds of all 6 males and all 7 females having defective genes is astronomical. Also, here's a quote from Dr. Frankenstein's webpage, as they produced Carpondros in 1999."I intend to re-double my efforts on the Carpondro project. I have added some new animals and with a little luck I might get some captive bred beauties like Chris did this spring. By the way, I produced a very small clutch in 99’ but the eggs were all infertile. I note this because producing these animals is by no means a guarantee."
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1.1 Blackheaded pythons
1.1 Woma (Juvie female)
2.1 Aussie Olives
1.1 Timors
1.0 Angolan Juvie
1.1 Savu
1.1 Juvie Bloods
1.1 Juvie Balls
1.1 IJ Carpets
1.1 Coastal Carpets
1.2 Macklotts
1.1 Papuan Olives
0.1 Jungle Carpet
2.2 Scrubs (on breeding loan)

Also, one pair was sold (invidually) to 2 different people. One was resold, and the whereabouts of all the animals is unknown. I saw all 13 animals (one male had a kinked tail), and they ranged from interesting to stunning
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1.1 Blackheaded pythons
1.1 Woma (Juvie female)
2.1 Aussie Olives
1.1 Timors
1.0 Angolan Juvie
1.1 Savu
1.1 Juvie Bloods
1.1 Juvie Balls
1.1 IJ Carpets
1.1 Coastal Carpets
1.2 Macklotts
1.1 Papuan Olives
0.1 Jungle Carpet
2.2 Scrubs (on breeding loan)

NERD has some interesting GTP/Carpets. They state” We currently Have 4 carpondros available. These guys display a great diversity in pattern and color from individual to individual. They should make a very interesting addition to any green tree or carpet breeding project!”

They also state” Baby Junglot Hybrids hatching now! Created 05/12/05 Description. We have a nice fertile clutch of Carplott (Macklott X Carpet) bred to a Nice Yellow Jungle Carpet hatching now. Babies are extremely variable!! These babies are fertile offspring that reproduce. They change so much as they grow!!!”

Are the Macklotts closer cousins than GTP?

Comments on this Hybrid?

"They should make a very interesting addition to any green tree or carpet breeding project!"

There's the clue. Not to be bred w/each other, but to a parent type, which I always thought could be done. The animals I saw looked like 6' Chondro neonates, as far as colors go. As to the Macs and Carpets, who knows. Kevin will try to breed anything, lol. Bloods and balls have been crossed, although not by him.
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1.1 Blackheaded pythons
1.1 Woma (Juvie female)
2.1 Aussie Olives
1.1 Timors
1.0 Angolan Juvie
1.1 Savu
1.1 Juvie Bloods
1.1 Juvie Balls
1.1 IJ Carpets
1.1 Coastal Carpets
1.2 Macklotts
1.1 Papuan Olives
0.1 Jungle Carpet
2.2 Scrubs (on breeding loan)

We need a geneticist on forum or something for this hybrid debate. I love it. Its got to be best thread out there.

I will admit this... Some of the carpondro pics i have seen online are, in my opinion, the most strikingly beautiful and just plain out wild-looking snakes in the world.

I hope they are fertile, that would be amazing! Its just that I still haven't seen a carpondro's baby.

If these guys are fertile then someone must have detailed breeding records with photos and animals to prove it.

- Joe

I agree with that. The silence when it comes to info on carpondro eggs speaks volumes. I think it's been tried, I just don't think it works.
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1.1 Blackheaded pythons
1.1 Woma (Juvie female)
2.1 Aussie Olives
1.1 Timors
1.0 Angolan Juvie
1.1 Savu
1.1 Juvie Bloods
1.1 Juvie Balls
1.1 IJ Carpets
1.1 Coastal Carpets
1.2 Macklotts
1.1 Papuan Olives
0.1 Jungle Carpet
2.2 Scrubs (on breeding loan)
1.0 Jungle/Diamond cross
0.1 child, CB
0.1 wife, WC

Its hard for me to believe that a hybrid could produce fertile offspring with its parent, but not with another hybrid cross of the same 2 species. If it can produce viable offspring with a parent type, then its fertile. If they are fertile, they should be able to mate with eachother.

Or is there something I dont know....

PS - Hey Jaykis, I like the looks of your collection. The blackheads, the olives, timors, carpets, ect... Its basically just what Im working towards (plus/minus a few species). I noticed you have a pair of coastals and if you breed them this year i would be interested in a nice female baby. I have that silver, axanthic-looking male coastal (posted on the carpet forum) that i hope to breed this year for the first time. What he really needs is a nice female coastal to partner up with instead of the female IJ he is with now. I have been trying like crazy to find a coastal breeder female, but i've given up and i'll probably end up buying a nice young female to raise up to be his mate. Keep me posted! Also, this is my first time breeding snakes and I would greatly appreciate any tips on cooling and such. Should i wait for them to go off feed or cool them anyway in a few weeks?? I have checked out the moreliapythons website for breeding info, but still...

- Thanks,

Joe

2.7 Phelsuma mad. grandis
3.2.9 Phelsuma klemmeri
0.0.9 Phelsuma laticauda
1.0 Coastal carpet
0.1 IJ carpet
0.1 jungle carpet
0.1 wife (WC)
0.1 baby (CB)