Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Well the last few days a front passed thru and dropped our temps, first drop of the year. But unfortunately not enough. It needs to get colder.

I was out for two hours, when I got there, after a 15 minute drive. I unloaded the quad and off we go. I have to drive five miles of back road to get to my site. The temps were high sixties.

There was fortytwo fresh snake tracts crossing the dirt tract. Its nice to have a good rain to make things easy to see.

Most of these tracts were mohaves and diamondbacks(Where are you Andy and Gordon) There were literally hundreds of lizards of many species. I did get a pic of a leopard lizard.

When I got to my site, I noticed some of the burrows were in use(gilas) saw two way down in the burrows, still to hot out for them to come closer to the surface. There was signs of resident snake activity. Like fresh sheds.

One is a rattlesnake and the other is a gophersnake.

This little fella was sitting like they commonly do, mostly in the shade with a small area in the sun. It appears this individual has a large food bolus. Most likely why its out.

Again, it was far to hot for much to be up, it did reach the low seventies before I left. I cannot wait until it gets lots colder so I can have some fun. I hope you enjoy the pics.

Some notes on our winter temps, our average winter day in southern az. is between 65 and 75F, with night lows around freezing. We get between 0 and 35 nights a year that go below freezing, with record lows in the high teens occuring over four and 1/2 months during fall winter spring. We normally get 3 to 5 fronts that drop the temps into the low twenties for a few days.

On the otherhand, we can and do have daytime highs during the winter months that are eighties to low ninties.

I know, some of you northerners would consider our winter your summer.

Consider, in June, we see very little snake activity, for instance, the number of tracks on the same dirt track, would be less then five. These low numbers occur over the three hottest months. May/june/july. I hope you enjoy FR

I hope to be down that way Sunday. Its hard not to get out at least once a week. It makes me jittery. Here is a neat shot from last weekend. It always an interesting area.

Up here in higher elevations where it gets cooler quicker and stays longer, the only species I've found/or people have seen hiking, past November are numerous species of rattlesnakes and pyros. A lot of javelina hunters (January archery hunt) have mentioned that they see rattlesnakes right outside of their den sites during the warmer days in January. Not much reports of other species of snakes. Maybe because they "notice" rattlesnakes more???? I also know that these human observations were not a result of looking for snakes. Do you think all/most species of snakes in Arizona are active during the winter months, or only certain species?? Thanks.

I know in fish (cold blooded), different species spawn at different temperature ranges. And that different species of fish are more active than others at different temperatures. But they can still catch them through the ice. Fish still eat during the winter time, but not nearly as much....do you think that when we see snakes out and about during the winter months that they are just trying to absorb heat?? or are they also looking for food??

Although we just had a cold front push through the area, there was a road kill Cal King just outside of Chino Valley on Monday. I've seen rattlesnakes through October. A friend of mines dog (in Prescott) was struck by an Arizona Black rattlesnake around Thanksgiving a few years ago. But I haven't heard of any snake sightings once it really gets cold up here, only on ocassion when the sun is out.

Kerby...

Kerby,
I have found that the problem is not so much the snakes are not there but people just don't see them. I went hunting for the first time in April of 1966. The experienced person I was with let me walk in front of him looking for snakes in a canyon in the Chapperal country of So. California. I think we found something like 5 snakes in an hour walk. I walked by each one and the experienced guy hollered at me to show me what I missed!! I was amazed that I had stepped within inches of a Crotalus ruber about 4' long coiled at the base of a bush!!! I had been clearly within striking range! Of course the guy with me started that irritating laugh of his that I have heard many times over the years!!! Oh yeah, his name is Frank Retes! Now come forward to 1993. Another Pastor and I were bank fishing for Bass (a second passion of mine!) at a Tank in Texas. He noticed ripe berries ready for the picking on a bush not far from the water's edge. I was fishing down the bank from him and looked over at what he was doing. What I saw and he failed to notice was a five foot Texas Rat in the bush about 6" from his head. I brought it to his attention, he jumped, and fell into the tank!!! The snake made a hasty retreat! Then he heard my irritating laugh!!! I believe it takes experience to be aware of what you are looking at or you miss so much.

Pat

I agree with that. A lot of us (maybe not Frank LOL) walk by a lot of snakes that we don't see. I have found snakes that were looking right at me (yup, they saw me first). Sometimes we have to look for scales........

Here is a link to my other passion too....only I haven't done too much of it in Arizona.

Kerby...
BASS FISHING

oops...

Kerby...
BASS FISHING

I wish I never missed snakes, but unfortunately I do ALL THE TIME. I could tell you stories of HMK and I, but maybe over a beer at a show. Dang is that a fly I hear, yup its a fly, hahahahahahahahahaha

Or HMK, I hear one, its really close, oh man, its under my foot, poor thing. FR

behaving different. Rattlesnakes expose themselves to our world, as in out. They are very thick skinned and can withstand dehydration. Other species are doing the same things but under cover. Consider, other species are hard to observe at all times of the year. Not just winter.

Also, you have another human factor. Average folks are "excited" over dangerous species, so they remember or see, what they consider dangerous, like rattlesnakes and pyros(tri-colored, coralsnake assoiation) I do not think pyros are out more then other fossorial(thin skinned) species. If you ask them the right questions, like did you ever see other snakes, they would have to think, then say, yea, once I saw this brown snake. But that slipped my mind. Then ask, how many pyros did you see, the answer may also be one, but they will remember that one. Same with rattlesnakes. Again, asking them can be confusing unless you ask the right questions.

A while back, I reported some of the conversations, Bill Garska and I had with locals, down in mexico while looking for mexicana. In Thayeri land, we showed a native several pics of thayeri and asked if he saw these. He said yes. Then I asked how many, he said three, I then asked where, he said, on this road we are walking on. hahahahahaha, then in mex mex turf, we again asked a local if he saw the kingsnakes there, this one also said yes, of course we have the same questions. But the last question I asked was, over how long? he had seen three kingsnakes, but the funny part was, in his whole life. Three seemed to be a common number too. There prespective is very different then ours.

Spotted nights are commonly found in the winter, if you know where to look, as are tantilla, kingsnakes, and ground snakes. The problem is knowing where to look. Same with lyresnakes. Lyresnakes are easy to find.

To me the interesting species are dirt dwellers, that can attain the temps needed by not coming to the surface.

As a kid, I use to hunt around ag. fields, one day, I went out moments after they plowed the fields, very early spring. The field was littered with gophersnake and kingsnake parts. All were basking just beneath the surface. With that in mind, I get the feeling they most thin skinned snakes are just below the surface on sunny exposures on winter days.

In fact, most of my observations in winter are of snakes, just below the surface. But they are going about their business(moving from area to area). I just had to learn to find windows that allowed viewing. These windows are rare and hard to find. But the snakes are common.

Of interest is, the time of least movement is spring, not winter. We often see snakes sitting in the same place in spring for weeks on end.

On the other hand, I do see tantilla and other small snakes crawling around on the surface, only in the colder months, not in the hotter months.

Another story, there was this snake dealer, south of here in mexico, many old timers know who I am talking about. He was a major supplier of Mex rosies and gilas. I asked him when he found those animals. He said, in all months but the hot ones. I asked even winter, he said, winter is the best.Hmmmmmmmmmm why are academic herpers the last to know?

Lastly consider theres a difference between accidental sightings and repeatable sightings. Deer hunters are accidently finding them. Yet snake hunters cannot find them on purpose. There is good reason for this. The snake hunters are prejudiced, and are looking in the wrong places. The Deer hunters are looking for deer and seeing snakes too. hahahahahahahahahahahahaha They did not judge where to look. Cheers FR

**Consider, other species are hard to observe at all times of the year. Not just winter.**

I agree. Some months during the summer (temps & humidity, etc..)

**If you ask them the right questions, like did you ever see other snakes, they would have to think, then say, yea, once I saw this brown snake. But that slipped my mind. Then ask, how many pyros did you see, the answer may also be one, but they will remember that one. Same with rattlesnakes. Again, asking them can be confusing unless you ask the right questions.**

LOL, yes. Also having to describe the difference between a banded snake and a striped snake is. And some people's interpretation of snake's colors is also interesting.

**To me the interesting species are dirt dwellers, that can attain the temps needed by not coming to the surface.**

Agreed, I found that easier to see while herping in Kansas in April where the temps can range 30 degrees in a 24 hour period. We would find the snakes in different layers of rocks/tin etc.. They could still get some heat without coming to the surface. Go back at the end of May/early June and the snakes have already changed their activity beacuse of heat/moisture/plant growth. The snakes were still active - just not to the naked eye. Underground/at night, etc..

**Another story, there was this snake dealer, south of here in mexico, many old timers know who I am talking about. He was a major supplier of Mex rosies and gilas. I asked him when he found those animals. He said, in all months but the hot ones. I asked even winter, he said, winter is the best.Hmmmmmmmmmm why are academic herpers the last to know?**

Because they are glued to their seats?? LOL

Kerby...

In a small coastal field in Palos Verdes, CA that is now the Trump National Golf Course, I used to look for snakes when I wasn't in school.

One day I happened to wander to a spot right next to the road. There was a big rock there that had been there for years, surrounded by flat ground. I avoided this spot in the past because it didn't look interesting to me. Surely I thought the little arroyos and other interesting spots farther down the field were better than this flat area right next to the street. Well, it was there that I started finding rattlesnakes basking just under the shade of a single big rock. Keep in mind that this spot was plowed every year for fire prevention. And yet, year after year, you could find rattlers in numbers right there. All this time, right next to a busy street. Right under the nose of countless bikers, kite fliers, etc. There was even an anerythristic-looking individual. And I never thought to look there before for years.

The rattlers could be seen on warm days in Dec and Jan.

Sadly, the golf course development destroyed the area. I found lots of rattlesnake skeletons there. Many reports came in of kingsnakes and gophersnakes being found during the plowing. I only saw 3 kingsnakes there in a 6 year period before that. Obviously there were many more under the surface.

Not all academic herpers are interested in or studying the topics we are discussing here. The great majority are looking at other stuff. There are just as many hobbyists and casual snake enthusiasts that don't get seasonal activity patterns and individual behavioral variation over not only a season, but a lifetime. In essence, most people with an interest in reptiles don't understand what reptiles do. I include myself here, and I have been banging my head on this wall for way too many years. When herpers ask me when Frank and I are going to write up the rattlesnake work we have been doing since the late seventies (and we should I guess), I always say "we'll write it up when we learn something." I think each year we ask better questions, but we may not yet have any soild answers.

What amazes me the most is how anyone would not be interested in what makes these beasts tick in nature. This applies directly to almost every discipline in zoological research, to captive breeding, or just plain simple basic husbandry.

It's not about what snakes do for half the year when it is warm. It's not about what snakes do during any given year. It is all about what populations do over many years, and how the individuals in the population vary in their success in maintaining the group.

Hey Frank,

Same thing down the block from you. Saw more sidewinder tracks than I could seperate into numbers yesterday morning, and a wide variety of atrox and gopher tracks. All less than 48 hours old since the front came through. Nothing new out there this morning though. Maybe IT WAS too hot yesterday?

grandpa hugh