Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I'm now being told, contrary to what the breeder told me, that Jacksons (1.1) cannot be housed successfully together. He had said that they tended to be more tolerant towards housing together if the cage was large and properly supplied with plants.
Someone please help me.
We've got two wonderful chams, and one cage.
-----
~~Tania~~
(and Jake, Peter, and Mary) the lizard family.

Panthers, Veilds, and Jacksons need to be housed separately. When they are newborns to 2-3 months they can be housed together but must be monitored as there's usually an aggresive one who stresses the others to the point they don't eat.
You can make a cage or buy one as Jacksons don't need the largest cage space in my opinion. It won't cost much to buy or make.
One thing, Jacksons tend to do better when housed in very small groups or alone when babies since they do tend to have high mortality rates..

We house our jacksons together. I currently have 4 groups of 1.2. It can be done.

Qualifications:

1. It should not be done as a first time chameleon owner. You need to have build up some experience with them so you can react properly to signs of stress or agression.

2. It takes a well foliate cage. You have to fight with our jacksons cages to get the doors closed due to the heavy foliage. This gives them security and helps keep in the humidity (we live in the desert area of Southern California and it is very dry).

3. You sometimes have to move females around to build a compatible group. The greatest characteristic (sp?) of owning lizards is that they have individual personalities. You have to get a group that doesn't mind being together.

4. We do this in 48 X 24 cages.
Scales - Premium Exotic Reptiles

Daniel,
We have a 65 gallon reptartium that we are in the process of filling with more and more foilage. We are first time chameleon owners, though not first time herp owners. (water dragons, geckos, turtles). We've got these two that seem to go about their buisness with little to no contact. There was once the female walked over the male, who is smaller, but it was because there was no where for her to go to get up higher besides where he was.
Your post was comforting, i have to say I have been reading articles on chams since 7 this morning, until now...
Do you think it is possible that we could pull this off successfully? We plan on allowing some free roaming of one or the other as they get older. But I wonder, if we watch for signs of stress, might we be able to house them together? I guess I'm just confused, I've seen them housed together as adults all the time, and they seem to get along fine, beautiful colors, active, alert and healthy.
Thankyou for your reply, I apologize for the long response.
-----
~~Tania~~
(and Jake, Peter, and Mary) the lizard family.

I'd recommend housing them separate. Get to the point that you are comfortable with their husbandry before putting them together. Chameleons are different than most other reptiles so get used to their little quirks. Keep It Simple idea.

Tania-

For best results in keeping the chameleons healthy and long term you need to keep them one per cage. Sounds like you are new to the chameleon hobby, check out my website under Do/Don't list it will answer most of the care questions you might have. One question, you bought a 1.1 pair of Jackson's and are they unrelated for breeding? Hope this helps!
-----
John @ Chameleon Paradise
1.1 Ambilobe Panthers
1.1 Nosy Be Panthers
1.1 Sambava Panthers
1.2 Rhampholeon uluguruensis

Yes they are unrelated hence the age difference.
We were planning on attempting breeding.
Anyone know any cheap places to get a reptarium? We just about out of money. We spent 30 dollars on our 65 gal... *sigh* i have researched and researched chameleons, and the problem is different sites say different things. How did i manage to only read the sites that said it was ok before buying them. I'm frustrated, we're all stressed out now. I'm not even sure where well have the room for two cages bah!
-----
~~Tania~~
(and Jake, Peter, and Mary) the lizard family.

Keep them together when you are there. Watch their behaviour, its pretty easy to tell if one is doing badly. Just so they each eat and basically leave each other alone and neither turns dark and hides or tries to escape constantly they will be fine.
You will get to know their colors and how these relate to their moods. Dont Worry. I wouldnt keep them together for long when you arent there, for a while, just in case, but if the breeder says they get along, heorshe should know. You really cant say Jackson's can or cannot be kept together, it is according to the individuals and the cage size. Just don't worry, It will become apparent in a little time. Enjoy them, they are beautiful creatures. By the way, It does help to have two basking spots, one each.
Link

Alright guys, thanks so much for all of the responses. As i feared, I've gotten alot of different answers!!
Here's a basic summary of whats going on, along with a few questions:

Our jacksons chameleons are housed in a 65
gallon reptarium. Is this too small? If we were to get a 120 gallon
reptarium would that be large enough, or would you recommend simply
getting 2 65 gallons? It seems like either way moving them around that much would be just as stressful as being able to see each other. Perhaps I say that because I've noticed no signs of stress, both have stayed about the same colors, only slightly dark in the morning, active, not bullying, and both eating fine. The bask near each other, but not next to each other. I worry about getting the cage too hott, especially if i were to use two lights. Also, I've heard about a thousand things about humidity! One person says high, the other says just spray every once in a while. We were going to get a humidifier... but i worry about getting it too humid then! Last night they ate about 5 mealworms (babies),
and were hunting crickets while i was cleaning off their new plant
outside. I estimate that the male is around 3-4mnths old, and the
female one or two months older. She is slightly larger. They are
active, and their eyes are nice and puffy. When we first come into the
room the female closes her eyes, but after a few minutes will open
them. Right now she comes over to me sometimes, because she figured
out thats where the food comes from If they were stressed, would
they be eating and active such as this? The only sign of possible
stress I noticed was that occansionally (2 times last night) the female
would start "swaying" when the male would head near her to get close to
the heat lamp. It didnt phase him, and he'd just sit there and bask...
she'd move a little away.
We have a 100 watt heat lamp and our UVB sitting on the top of the
cage, should we move the heat lamp else where?
Also...
I received this in an email from a gentleman who has experience with Chameleons, and i wanted to see what you guys thought!
"I also use their vitamin supplement but I dust VERY lightly and then only once every 2-4 weeks. I have found that both my jax & hoehnelli are extremely sensitive to supplements and will develop gular edema is the crix are heavily dusted and if the dusting is more than once every 2-4 weeks.

As for the Ca. It's NOT true that they will simply excrete it. Quoting from Ken Lopez' D3 & Calcium article at www.chameleonjournals.com: " **Too much Calcium causes muscles to become sluggish and weak. It has cardiac effects as well as causing obstipation and lack of appetite due to decreased contractility of the intestinal walls."

Just FYI, Ken Lopez is one of the 6 or 7 most knowledgeable cham vets in the world. I've never seen MBD in my animals despite almost never using supplemental Ca or D3. Because prey are well gutloaded and because my animals get plenty of UVB. But I've seen frequent examples of gular edema traceable oversupplementing. "
-----
~~Tania~~
(and Jake, Peter, and Mary) the lizard family.

I think Jackson's can tolerate lower humidity than recomended, but the key word is tolerate. I have noticed they shed much better when it is more humid. They enjoy the mister when i turn it on, gathering under it and just "bask" in it for hours if I let them. They also have to drink ALOT more when the humidity is low. I would say keep the humidity at eighty percent if possible, but dont forget to let in plenty of fresh air. Get an ultrasonic fogger if you can. I dont think it is possible to have too much humidity unless there is no air circulation.
She is swaying "no" to him sexually. As long as he takes the hint it will be fine, no problem. If they share a basking light with no stress dont change it unless they start stressing.
My chams look stressed if the temp gets above 85, especially if the humidity is low. They start "gaping" and get very light colored. It is usually about 80 to 85 in the enclosure, no problems.
A larger enclosure is always better, if you can afford it. Better for you and the lizards.
I dont use any supplements anymore, and can't say if that is ok yet.
remember these are just my humble opinions, you are actually the best judge of what makes your chams happiest. Just be quick to change things at the very first sign of problems, dont forget to enjoy it.

I think I might have forgotten how to enjoy it at the time. There's so much to think about and do. I'm being told such differnt things by different people and I dont know what to do. I wouldnt think the chams are even old enough to be sexually mature yet! I think that a 120 gal would have to be more space efficient than 2 65 gals, but the most important thing to me is keeping them happy and healthy. Our sugar glider died not too long ago, and I know Richard could not handle losing another pet right now. He lost self confidence in being able to care for something dependent on him, and I want to give that back to him.
I am so confused.
-----
~~Tania~~
(and Jake, Peter, and Mary) the lizard family.

I think she is just reacting to him out of instinct, even if she is too young and he too. Sounds like he wasn't making advances, just trying to get to the basking spot. You need to relax, they are not going to die. Leave them where they are now. ENJOY THEM.
What is the temp in their cage right now?

LOL I know I need to relax! But imagine getting the pet that you've wanted for over half of your life, and then being faced with tons and tons of conflicting information! Its stressful. And then there is Richard who is freaking out because he thinks he is a bad owner and already killing them. His sugarglider just recently died...
I'm afraid I haven't gotten a temp reading yet (cowers) because the store we went to was out of thermometers (sp), can you beleive that?? Anyways, Its a 65 gal and a 100w bulb... thats what the breeder told me to use.. I have another 50 watt infa-red bulb that we got to use in the winter, though I really dont think we'll even need it. Someone had mentioned 2 basking lamps, I could use that as a second one, but then it would be too hott in there i would assume.
-----
~~Tania~~
(and Jake, Peter, and Mary) the lizard family.

you must get a thermometer now, use a people thermometer for now if you have one. The temp in there could be 120degrees for all we know. Other than that, keep it under ninety degrees and do mist as often as possible. If I were you I'd move the incandescent bulb up about a foot from the top til you get a thermometer. If you see them with their mouths open and very light colored, they are too hot.

They have done neither, and bask most of the day.
The 100 watt went out, so we're with a 50 watt and a 60 watt (two separete basking areas) one is a night light
-----
~~Tania~~
(and Jake, Peter, and Mary) the lizard family.

I know all this is confusing, but maybe this will help. The experience one breeder had is not necessarily gospel. You don't know how much success they had with how many long lived animals either. The fact that they told relative new keepers you could house them together right off is not a great sign. Especially as you could go online and hear the opposite from a majority of others. Stress can be quite subtle and occur over time...we're talking months, not days. Chams are experts at hiding stress related illness until it is often too late to treat them. When one or both of your jax hit maturity the social situation in your cage may change FAST. Most caging where a pair of jax shared has been much larger than a 65 gal. Reptarium. Part of the problem is we have had different experiences with our chams. Sometimes they get along fine, most often not. There are exceptions, and it may be because of feeding habits, light setups, general climate in your room, other stressors from activity around the cage, health of the chams, lots of things. If your female becomes gravid you will have to separate her anyway, and they are together now it could happen sooner than you think. Might as well be ready. The classic advice to keepers who have not had chams (and they are really different than most other herps) before is to separate them. It's the conservative course, but safer for them. You need time to learn the personalities of your specific animals before taking a chance at shared housing. I would suggest getting another Reptarium (smaller would work OK for a juvenile female). and putting them side by side with a piece of sheet etc. between. You can share lights, mister, etc. fairly easily this way and the cages will help humidify each other. This will save work and some $$. You can watch them over time and learn to pick up the very subtle signs of stress before things go wrong without investing in a very large cage that won't work. Good luck!

Wow, what an absolutely great reply, thnx np
-----
~~Tania~~
(and Jake, Peter, and Mary) the lizard family.

"Actually, the information that was provided to you at the show by the person there, in my opinion, is completely accurate.. Jacksons are one of the few chameleons that generally get along just fine together, provided with enough hiding material. There are exceptions, but not many, jacksons do very well, with low stress having the opposite sex around. And, a 65 gallon reptarium is plenty of space for jacksons, period. A larger cage, yes, always better, but a 65 is plenty of room. Just because you went and found someone, or even a few people who disagree, doesnt mean they, or we are right. Everyone is welcome to their own opinion, but the person you spoke at the show with has previously bred jacksons, and has years and years of experience. I am happy you took some more time to do further research, that is great. Every book you read, every person you talk to, has different advice, different opionions. But to assume that the person you spoke with at the show was wrong is a mistake. If you have further questions, let me know, I am happy to help, as you did purchase them from us."
*shrug* if you say so boss...
-----
~~Tania~~
(and Jake, Peter, and Mary) the lizard family.

wow, finally someone who knows what they are talking about, thanx LLL

I'm glad their jax got along...mine never did, so they had to be separated. My female was the aggressor.

Where were all of these opinions when I wanted to house mine together?

Actually, my two guys hated each other from day one and actually still hate one another in the unlikely --- but random event --- that they catch a glimpse of one another. It was a war from day one and separating them was the best thing I ever did for them.

I am happy to report that two cages, side by side, with a plastic divider takes up the perfect amount of space and I now have two very happy and healthy, well-adjusted chameleons.

I understand that LLL says that Jax can live together. But, why bother? The swaying you describe is already a warning that all is not peaceful in the cage. Two cages side by side with take up the same space and will make everyone happy. In fact, they will be much more likely to breed when they happen to "chance" upon one another (a.k.a when you put the mature male in the mature female's cage!).
-----
5 Month Old Ambanja Male I - LESTER
5 Month Old Ambanja Male II - SHOGO